apparantely the "vans" we drive are called vans and not trucks because if we called them trucks we would have access to a certain union that's actually pretty good at least that's what I heard from one guy I worked with
Anno
oh nooooooo its been so long since ive seen footage of someone doing the dance to an anime intro song and i just came across one and aaaaaaaa
FormerRei@mobile
I just read like 160 chapters of manga in one sitting.
im so pissed i keep seeing footage of female monster hunter world characters in cute ass armor but i've entirely put all the time into that game that i feel like putting in, with a male character, and now i feel like ive missed out on so much
black heart show me what you hold in hand i still hunger for more release me from my pain give it to me how i need it'how i need it how i need it
where can i run where can i hide the silmarils gems of treelight their life belongs to me ph it's sweet how the darkness is floating around
TN
We are following The will of the one Through the dark age And into the storm And we are following The will of the one Through the dark age And into the storm Lord I'm mean
i didn't wanna show these clips because it's a little too commercialized but it's the only clip i could find with high quality equipment recordings that actually capture the sound he's bein a big ol wuss puss though there's a whole camera crew there with him gettin in real close and not whinin
this art freaks me out there's something bizarre about it the arms scare me >>524349 are those bugs
月
i dunno they seem kind of like bugs are urchins bugs or what about sea slugs
Kirara 🚗
i think sea stars are lizards they regrow parts and lizards do too urchins are just poor people dude
月
they regrow parts because they're echinoderms not lizards there's no way they're lizards
月
and wtf an urchin doesn't mean they're poor it means they're a resource on the street they give out information for donation if they don't do that they're just homeless
no they're echinoderms
Kirara 🚗
are urchins lizards
Kirara 🚗
like echidnas?
月
yes echinoderm derm for skin latin for echidna-skin
月
i guess i was wrong street urchins are just street children?? i've never heard it in that context it's always been like you pay an urchin to tell you shit
Kirara 🚗
are sea urchins just children of the sea th33 then??
月
we're all children of the sea
Kirara 🚗
damb.
Kirara 🚗
that made ocean come out of my eyes man
月
are there sea centipedes are they actually centipedes or just called them just like sea cucumbers aren't real cucumbers
Kirara 🚗
google says there are intertidal centipedes
月
do you think fish would eat a sea cucumber salad
月
pacific veggie sandwich lettuce, tomatos, sea cucumbers, and hummus
>>524381 i feel that way often, but i dont think it's the case for me just if i don't have caffeine with it then i feel completely normal if i do have caffeine i get overstimulated
It's kind of a pain! I have to find one a rich person would like even though I'm poor. There are some that I'm sure she'd like, but I don't like those ones at all.
Maria
wouldn't it be cool if you could forge your own ring for her
I'm willing to spend a few hundred dollars. If I do kids parties, I can afford more. I have $500 that I was going to use for camera gear, but I'm putting it towards the ring instead.
I used to, but finding out her last name is different now really put me over the hill.
月
>>524446 i got one but at this moment im tryna read asco publications while laying down with my laptop on this shitty air mattress it's givin me a headegg
She got that teaching job and quit it, actually. She hated her coworkers
月
that tends to happen to people with unrealistic expectations
Kirara 🚗
especially ones that are bitches
月
i'm a benzo addict and even im not that delusional tbh
月
work is gonna suck regardless just gotta deal with it
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
Although, I don't exactly know how long her name has been different. If it has been a while, it makes her answer to "Do you think you'll ever come back" that I asked on a whim being "Probably not" pretty funny.
月
i hope you said "thank god" back seriously fuck her she's awful
Being lied to for 5 months is one thing. I don't want to think about being lied to for four years.
Kirara 🚗
people don't usually change that drastically without drugs or a traumatic event
月
>>524466 in relationships i'd argue otherwise there's a gradual development of uncertainty and then there's a threshold of activation which prompts drastic adaptation of some diverging internal concepts like when you're solving a puzzle and you're developing a strategy in your head that says "maybe there's another way to do it" but you stick with the prior strategy until it's exhausted, then quickly change plans
it's a very different dynamic work relationships often take a similar approach given the long-term nature of them and high activation threshold you don't change jobs until the pressure breaches that critical point and also the confidence in another skill
Anno
Yeah, I think it's more natural for things to happen this way. What people feel can shift, even if above the water things look the same as they always have. If you want to get picky you could say the one that Tony put on a pedastal and loved porbably never existed since that was likely a skewed image. But I would say it's far more likely that the relationship was mutual at first, and gradually changed over time. It's easy to get comfortable in a relationship and not change until you get the chance to break away hard.
月
it's not like a dietary shift or fashion shift where the cost of adaptation is as granular as the development
I dunno about ALL of that There definitely was a cute girl who I lived with that liked anime
Kirara 🚗
>>524467 i agree to an extent there is a certain area of possible change people can go through and relationships do accelerate change but someone who is willing to cheat and lie to loved ones after a few years is probably someone that was at the very least willing to consider doing it prior to that people don't usually just change in a way that dramatically changes their moral decision making without drugs or trauma unless they're very young
>>524466 Sometimes a pent-up girl just goes to college and becomes a slut. That was my impression of her.
Anno
The ones that hate liars tend to be the ones that lie the most themselves.
月
>>524471 i guess i'm saying that the change in actions don't correlate to the change in the person it's like feeling like something with your body isn't right for a year before going to the doctor and finding out you've got an inflamed appendix the situation develops quickly when you get the diagnosis but that's not when the underlying change occurred ykwim
>>524476 Yeah, but it seemed to me like she was in the process of figuring out her potential when they met. It's different for girls. It's very easy just to toss morals aside and do what you want because you can get away with it.
As I'm sure you know, there are more or less two types of moral decision making processes. The first is where it comes from inside and you do what is right, and the second is from outside and you do because you think that's what you should do. I think that Blind was the second type, and that somewhere along the way she figured out she could just toss those morals aside without any real immeditate consequences.
>>524482 i dont know if i agree with that, it doesn't sound right to me i don't actually think she considered right/wrong in her decision making i think she just went for whatever benefitted her most
On another note though, another drastic change to consider is that she's got like autism and shit and doesn't deal well with people she doesn't know and then whammo blammo in an entire country of people she doesn't know
月
yeah she's probably constantly miserable like everyone else in japan
She never really had the ability to emphathize even back when I first met her
月
>>524489 in comparison, my boyfriend stopped thinking about right and left because he doesn't have to ;_;
Kirara 🚗
>>524489 I don't think she ever thought about right or wrong i think yo /// you're attributing a lot of intent to her but i think she was just motivated by pleasure principle
is there like a given name for people who are directionally challenged btw?
月
besides jan
Anno
Like, those that mentally struggle determining which way is right and left? I feel like there has to be but I don't know if I've heard it.
Kirara 🚗
jan and i are both like that haha
Anno
I'm good at it innately. Like if I've been told to like, "walk two blocks and turn left", I don't need to stop and think about it. But if I'm trying to desribe it in the moment, like "grab the thingy from the upper-left drawer", I'll probably say something like, "grab the thingy from the upper ,uh, (make slight hand motion) left drawer".
i just slightly move my left or right hand and then i know which is right and which is left i only have to do it maybe like 10% of the time, though
Anno
Yeah, I'm that way too. It might even be something like a tap on the thigh or another subtle thing like that. Or tapping my thumb and pointer finger together. I move enough as I'm talking as is that it probably blends all together anyway.
>>524510 i don't remember telling you to throw it out the window i remember handing you a bag and saying make sure you throw up in the bag my suggestion would have been to keep the bag in case you throw up again if you complained about the smell though i woulda said yeah throw it out
Anno
I've been left some money to order out for food tonight. Do I treat myself to something a little extra, or go with my usual cost-minimal order.
Ko-Shi
Life comes at you expeditiously
Kirara 🚗
>>524512 haha maybe i was just fucked up enough to think that happened
Kirara 🚗
i remember eating some candy in the back too
月
i think i would have anticipated you saying "but that's LITTERING" and said something different i might have just told you to open the window to vent it so i could avoid that just, you know, playin my own game in my head
no, i had gummies i didn't take any codeine until we got back to the hotel i don't think
月
i wish i had some codeine even percs preferably my shoulderblade and collarbone feelin so fucked up wake up in pain every mornin
Kirara 🚗
my percs are still locked up
月
how many do you have
Kirara 🚗
i have a bunch probably around 20 i don't remember i cant get them though i did something with the key when i was having that week long break down i did something so i wouldn't abuse the percs and OD but i don't remember what i did with the key
Anno
Almost nine in the evening and the sun's only just beginning to set. I love this time of year.
Now if only it wasn't like seventeen Celsius. I want my summers WARM.
Kirara 🚗
it's been almost 40c here like every day
月
>>524523 not gonna lie i would probably take 60mg oxy/morph right now at once but i wouldn't take a percocet because of the acetominophen p fucked up that i'm more worried about the acetominophen than opiates butit's true
Anno
Huh, passed an Ohio license plate in my neighborhood. That's a little out of place.
I'm too absent-minded to keep that straight. Also I get headaches pretty easily from stuff like atmospheric fluctuations and other causes. Just how it goes.
My finger is bruised I feel like I would kill a person with it if I shouted spirit gun.
Kirara 🚗
oh that's not so bad
>>>/@bubbaprog/1010558341934997504?s=19 bitch think she can go see a movie about Mr. Rogers while she's stealing health insurance from millions and supporting the placement of kids in concentration camps man i love this
Bigotry isn't squashed as some sort of sin, but for its effects It matters little whether a machine is harmful to others due to some metaphyiscal choice or due to its programming, it has to be stopped from continuing to do harm
Maria
people are products of circumstance and environment. Our actions all stem from one seed
Kirara 🚗
sure, but there's more to the world than a functional interpretation of it
Kirara 🚗
>>524682 that's been pretty much disproven for years we're far more than the effects the environment has on us
>>524684 aw fucj what else is there then And when I say circumstances I don't just mean environment I mean genetics and all that too What I mean is that if you somehow had all relevant data relating to every aspect that could possibly influence human behaviour down to even the smallest details, then you could potentially predict it all >functionally random is it
there's genetics and epigenetics especially epigenetics is important it's also common for humans to go against what all predictions say because there is a functionally random component to human behavior
Kirara 🚗
>>524685 no way, laplace's demon is dead babey and it's never comin back
Kirara 🚗
quantum physics has done a lot to argue against that kind of thing the world is better thought of as probabilistic than determined
It clearly has an overwhelming effect on us though To suggest otherwhise would be to assign the extreme difference in values and behavior between those in power and those without power, as well as all of class rule, to a roll of the dice.
Kirara 🚗
i never suggested otherwise, the influence of environment on behavior is evident in even the most basic experiments of behavior but there's a lot more to it than that
if it's only environment, or even mostly environment, then i should be like other people who had pasts like me, right?
But since we're specifically talking about the person, the mind itself, not the body, we have to consider even their physical body a part of the environment Which includes the physical makeup of their brain itself.
There's no arguing against there being a seemingly random variation in physical makeup due to factors, again part of the environment. Who your parents are, the process that made you, is kind of the environment
Kirara 🚗
to assign to the environment the physical body is ridiculous
sk
Why is it? The reality of the world at your conception is obviously going to have a determining effect on your genetic makeup
you can't claim the mind and body are separate if you're going to say the circumstances of the body exert such influence over the circumstances of the mind that argument is that the mind is part of the physical body, that the mind is the brain, and the brain is the body
sk
The mind is the process of the body, or one of them anyway
Kirara 🚗
what does that mean?
sk
It means that what the body is directly influences the mind That doesn't mean they're indistinguishable from eachother
sk
Because the body itself is just one of many factors that determine our consciousness, our ideas and our values
Kirara 🚗
in what way does the body determine those?
sk
Well as an easy example, autistic people struggle with empathy right? Depending on where on the spectrum they are, I mean.
Autism is a result of like, the physical state of the brain, right?
Kirara 🚗
autism is associated with abnormal brain development
sk
Right, so the physical development of the brain has directly influenced that person So it is a determining factor, but depending on whether this person is now raised around an accepting community or one that considers them less valuable will also determine their view of reality, it's still an enormous factor
Kirara 🚗
who is to say the brain doesn't develop abnormally due to an abnormality in the mind
Well there's no real way to know that, unfortunately We have no direct access to any mind but our own
sk
Like even if a machine could do it, we would still be observing that through our own mind, there's no way to disconnect this
Kirara 🚗
do you believe the mind and body are separate at all)
sk
That's a difficult question to answer. Like they aren't literally the same, we obviously mean different things by body and mind, so in that way they're separate. But they are acting as two parts of a system, as well.
Kirara 🚗
how would you define a mind?
sk
It's the consciousness we experience reality through It's hard to nail down because it sort of is everything that we think and feel
Kirara 🚗
do you think there is anything other than the consciousness and body?
sk
I mean obviously surrounding reality, but I'm not sure if I understand what you're asking
Wait no, I didn't read the post properly No, by surrounding reality I mean like, the physical world, your environment, which your body is sort of part of, though obviously we can identify which parts of the environment is the body, since the body is what we define as it Like the body is one part of the enormous process that produces consciousness
I mean as a psychologist I thought you'd be on my side here, though I'm not saying you're being antagonistic
月
don't call it a cumbag
sk
Like to take a real life example You talked about how there's a lot of alcoholism in the native american community, right? That's a product of their environment right, and to some slight extent probably their body as well, since (at least I assume) there is some grounding in predisposition to it could exist in the physical development of the brain, right? Like people are more likely to become addicted if they started drinking while young, for example, since the brain hadn't developed properly yet? It's not because a sort of mind outside made these decisions in a vacuum, unaffected by the environment.
My issue with the connotations of calling the mind 'the spirit', is that its religious meanings is that of something unaffected by the environment, a sort of independent mind which overrides the physical process that produces the mind. Because I don't believe such a thing exists.
Kirara 🚗
>>524721 there are genetic factora that contribute to alcoholism let me ask this, why do you think those people drink? do they drink because they see alcohol and that dictates they drink it? when they're young and start drinking, they choose to drink that alcohol, and they choose to continue drinking that alcohol as they grow up nothing in their environment dictates that they must drink people across all environments drink and become alcoholics regardless of the environment it's true that indigenous americans are more likely to become alcoholics due to genetic factors, but drinking is a choice they make
You see, this is why I say that to believe otherwise I have to violate every belief I have. To believe otherwise, I would have to consider that Native Americans are essentially predisposed to alcoholism. As a core trait of their very being, they sometimes override environmental factors in a way which makes them alcoholics.
I do not believe that to be the case.
月
they are predisposed to it genetically, culturally, historically in familial patterns of behavior, and commercially not to mention culturally understimulated so oft looking for something else
The genetic component exists, but it does not explain the full desparity, nor is it an essential characteristic of a Native American Or at least I don't believe so. Those not predisposed are still Native Americans, and there are some other issues I think I have but haven't considered enough to defend
Kirara 🚗
what are the environmental factors in your view that necessitate the higher prevalence of alcoholism in indigenous American populations
sk
I think it's primarily a socio-economic matter. I don't fully understand the situation, but I don't think it's farfetched to say poverty significantly affects your mental state, making you prone to seek relief through, potentially, self-destructive means Which in turn significantly increases the development of a habit rather than an irregular activity
Because the suffering you're attempting to escape is sufficiently worse than that of, say, a middle class person, just by virtue of your poverty. The struggles of the poor are different from those of the middle class. They are often far more impactful.
Kirara 🚗
>>524734 it sounds like you're saying being poor makes you stupid
does more painful suffering mean that you are attracted to coping behaviors that can worsen your suffering, in your view?
With sufficient suffering, the threat of further suffering is outweighed by the promise of temporary relief The suffering is already so great, it hurts too much not to escape
Kirara 🚗
so a poor person, faced with a self-destructive coping behavior and a non-self-destructive one, will choose the self-destructive one because they are already in pain?
月
>>524731 want a bag of fritos that i accidentally spilled chicken broth into?
Anno
Yes.
sk
>>524739 Depending on various factors, I think that goes for suffering in general. Heroin addicts, for example, aren't too dumb to know the continued use is counter-productive. But they still choose to relieve the suffering. This isn't a moral failing. They are products of reality.
I'm watching my blood sugar so that definitely isn't going to be used as food.
Kirara 🚗
>>524742 what does morality have to do with this? nobody mentioned it
you're telling me that something inherent in being poor makes you more likely to pick a self-destructive coping behavior over one that isn't self-destructive
I've never been in that situation so I don't know for sure. And I don't think there is an easy answer or a single identifiable cause. Being poor isn't an essential characteristic of anyone, it is a social and economic category which determines what options you have in life, how you are treated by the surrounding community, your level of education, your work, what media you consume, what healthcare you are able to access, what you're able to eat. Being poor is not simply a 'thing' someone is, it is a role in an enormous complicated system.
Kirara 🚗
you're arguing for behaviorism saying that we are the products of our environment and their environments are what drive them to drink but you can't explain why how can you argue something is true if you don't understand your own arguments?
>>524753 who cares about my colleagues they probably haven't ever even thought about it
Well how do your collegues explain the alcoholism in Native American communities
sk
Well I want to know how psychologists account for it. I'm not a one man research team, I don't have the answer to this
Kirara 🚗
there are a lot of different kinds of psychologists with different philosophical leanings we're not all behaviorists im an existential psychologist for example my philosophy is founded in existentialist philosophy
why do they drink? i would say because they haven't been taught alternative coping styles. their coping styles were destroyed by imperialist whites. but if they had those better coping styles, they could choose to use those, rather than drinking they aren't being forced to drink by their environment, they're choosing to drink, knowing that it has negative consequences, and they become acoholics because they're genetically predisposed to it
月
imo, given my experiences and how i weight cultural exchange, i'd feel a lot of it comes from cultural inheritance lots of people in the family doin it so it's easy to pick up the genetic predisposition might make the alcoholism a little bit more "sticky" along with plenty of other factors that reinforce coping through misuse
Yeah but why are Native Americans not choosing to learn coping mechanisms that aren't this self-destructive?
Kirara 🚗
because those aren't available to them they don't have the resources to learn if they did, they would, like they did for generations
sk
What do you mean they're 'not available'. That's the environment Sure, it's not because they're poor, exclusively, I didn't mean to imply that, but that is A Factor in this. If they were morbidly rich, they would have access to other coping mechanisms, in fact their situation would be so significantly different, they likely wouldn't need them for the particular issues they are experiencing now. >>524765 My philosophy doesn't rob anyone of anything. I am saying the environment determines what your life is, and consequently who you are. This necessitates that we do not consider poverty some sort of fucking choice, we do not consider their lack of access to coping skills some fucking choice on their part. That is fucking obscene. Those are entirely, 100% the environment, which we must change. Which is the entire project.
Kirara 🚗
not available means they aren't available and people have no obligation to make the best decision even when they are available, anyway your philosophy robs people of freedom and i don't understand how you can justify that as an anarchist
Kirara 🚗
in other words, we have to controlpeople so they make the decisions we think they should
sk
No We have to make them able to access all. What is capitalism but fucking control We abolish that
Kirara 🚗
so you're saying they should be able to choose
sk
Yes. And if they aren't able to choose, the environment is at fault.
Kirara 🚗
you can always choose, though the environment can limit your options
They all could have chosen otherwise, they elected not to. If you are saying they could have chosen something they had no idea was available, you are arguing against rationality itself
Kirara 🚗
no, you're saying that
Kirara 🚗
blame isn't even relevant to me blame is a loaded word
they are responsible for their actions even if they were influenced to act poorly by their environment you're the one trying to assign fault to people im not making moral attributions at all
EVERY DECISION THEY MAKE UP TO THAT POINT IS ALSO A DIRECT PRODUCT OF THEIR ENVIRONMENT FOR FUCK'S SAKE Stop acting as though they were somehow, as a consciousness, completely void of physical reality impacting them until this choice to drink. How could one who is never told there are other options than drinking to relieve their profound suffering be determined capable of choosing otherwise when the option is in there. The environment has produced a suffering so immense, all relief is accepted with open hands. Because it hurts too fucking much.
Kirara 🚗
no, it's not
Kirara 🚗
you admitted yourself that you've never experienced this yet you so passionately argue that you know how it is yes, people can choose whether or not to drink, even if they have no coping skills other than drinking choosing to drink isn't a thing im assigning any moral attribution to people are not rational animals, they do not always make the best decision
You are assigning blame to them for their alcoholism. They should have known better. This was the wrong choice, objectively somehow. As though they couldn't have reasons which in their present state of mind justified it.
Kirara 🚗
no, again, you are the one assigning blame
Kirara 🚗
this is actually really interesting you're inserting all kinds of things i haven't endorsed into my arguments
I can't assign blame, because I don't believe in free will. Every person is a product of physical reality in full. They can't be blamed as individual consciousness as though they're elevated and separate from reality This doesn't mean some things must be stopped, in fact it means some things have to be stopped.
Kirara 🚗
so you think that if people can make choices, that means there must be an objectively correct choice, and there must be a moral attribution of blame directed towards anyone that does not make that decision?
I think we recognize that alcoholism is a bad thing to be afflicted with, and nobody should be. The correct person for every person is to not be an alcoholic\\\ the correct option. In a vacuum, that is true. But surrounding reality skews our priorities, making some thing some important than others.
Nobody wants to be an alcoholic, but it might be an acceptable compromise for something else. Just as nobody on the anarchist left enjoys violence itself. It's endorsed as a means to curb something else, because it is more important. >>524785 Exactly, but by drinking in a certain pattern, you increase your chances of becoming an alcoholic. This is not some choice made disconnected from surrounding reality by some elevated spirit. The consciousness making that decision remains a product entirely of the physical world. And as a physical machine, no person can go against what that machine's mechanisms dictate. It's not necessary that all be predictable, the point is it is directly responsible and can not be overridden by the mind itself. The consciousness can't reject the brain's physical processes
Kirara 🚗
the choice in question isn't whether or not to become an alcoholic but rather whether or not to drink getting sick isn't a choice
Kirara 🚗
>>524784 nobody said the choice was made by a spirit disconnected from reality
sk
Then why did it choose to do the thing Why do native american minds choose this more frequently? If it has nothing to do with environment, or whatever you're implying
Kirara 🚗
you're assuming that they're choosing it more frequently which isn't necessarily right but more importantly, they chose to drink because they are humans, and humans make decisions
What do you MEAN that's not right YOUR OWN research says otherwise. The choices leading to alcoholism is clearly made more often by a population severely more affected by alcoholism.
Kirara 🚗
if someone is more likely to become an alcoholic, they can drink as much as people who don't become alcoholics and still become alcoholics higher prevalence of alcoholism isn't indicative that greater volumes of alcohol is consumed before becoming one
So accounting for the genetic difference is really all it takes? Aren't their levels of alcoholism like, a lot higher? We're not talking like a 2-3% increase, right?
Kirara 🚗
their levels of alcoholism are higher because they are predisposed to alcoholism and in addition to that, being around alcoholics increases your chances of drinking, which increases your chances of becoming an alcoholic, especially when you're predisposed to that
So if that part of their genetic makeup was altered, that would likely end alcoholism in native american communities? Or at least, end it in the sense that it returns to the normal for the rest of the country, if nothing else?
Kirara 🚗
if they weren't not genetically predisposed to addiction, we would see lower rates of addiction in that population, yes
As low as the rest of the country? >>524801 Yeah, we're gonna be assuming we basically replace them with a population without alcoholism at day1 and without this genetic difference
Kirara 🚗
if you treated the existing addiction to the same level as the rest of the country, yes, it would reach a similar level
Like, we're not ACTUALLY going to carry out eugenics, so we're just going to have to live with the fact that this population is just going to be alcoholics more often. >>524804 But these are options the rest of the country has, right? But it'd drop to a similar level for native americans by just altering this genetic difference, so the coping mechanisms don't seem to do much good beyond shifting who is and who isn't an alcoholic. >>524805 Surely the average american has a vastly superior access to these resources than the average native american?
Kirara 🚗
because more options means more freedom to live as one pleases
Kirara 🚗
no, most of the country doesn't have access to those coping mechanisms either which is why many of us on /moe/ are alcoholics
Kirara 🚗
>>524803 that doesn't mean we choose to go and use them and many of us don't have those resources
So having them available isn't good enough >>524808 But they are available to far more americans than native americans. If, by removing this genetic difference, the level of alcoholism falls to roughly the same, what does that mean for the effectivity of increased availability? >>524809 But what is the reason to do anything to increase the availability of these resources, to improve life for people, if this does nothing for them, and they will regardless be miserable. >>524810 But you're saying they won't, anyway
Kirara 🚗
having them available is good enough because people can choose to use them
Kirara 🚗
it means that people are making similar choices?
coping skills are things that should be taught in schools, you shouldn't have to go out of your way to get them, but that's not how it is right now
no, they will choose they are choosing not to use those resources and that's a valid choice
sk
So why would the level of alcoholism equalize, then, if the regular americans are choosing to get help, yet retain the same alcoholism level as a population who do not have the option of getting help? This is just ridiculous. Obviously it's not effective if they do choose it and the result is the same as if they can't.
Kirara 🚗
because people can make similar choices yes, like i said, those skills should be taught in schools and people shouldn't have to go out of their way to obtain those skills, but they still have the choice of going to find those skills people are not rational and do not behave rationally, ever
月
>>524809 system-approved methods of coping sounds like a slippery slope imo
>>524813 I don't understand this need for having institutions we fundamentally believe do not affect the problem then. What you're making is an argument an ancap would love, for one. The option should be there, but it's not actually important enough to spend our own resources on. Someone else should do it and get something back from it.
Kirara 🚗
>>524814 that's not what im saying, im talking about learning about self-care and obtaining the skills to cope
Kirara 🚗
>>524815 anarchism is built on the idea of freedom, and to deny people have freedom is astounding to me you aren't even properly reading my arguments though so idk what to tell you
Freedom is meaningless if it means we are all equally miserable and self destructive as we are in capitalism.
If this is the essential human condition, it matters not if we brought communism today. We would all be miserable.
Kirara 🚗
good thing we won't be miserable and self-destructive outside of capitalism well, we'll still be self-destructive to some extent, but those self-destructive tendencies are western in nature
sk
That is what I'm SAYING But you're saying it is irrelevant, the environment is not to blame. It is an essential characteristic of the alcoholic which made him so, there is nothing we could have done.
Kirara 🚗
no, that's not what im saying at all
sk
How can these be problems in one environment if it's not in another, and yet it remains the case that the availability of resources does not affect our actual choices enough to skew the alcoholic rate in two vastly different socio-economic populations. What you're arguing is that this distribution of social ills is simply a human essential, immutable by our hands lest we physically alter the people who experience these ills.
Kirara 🚗
environment creates limitations to one's freedom you're not even listening to my arguments, you keep making things up and pretending i said them because you're mad after misunderstanding something i said as reactionary
sk
I'm saying it is reactionary and you should self-crit on it.
Kirara 🚗
you think it's reactionary because you aren't reading them
sk
But you are saying that if we alter this genetic thing, I'm not saying you're arguing for it I'm saying that if it were to happen, the alcoholism rate would go down to that of a population with vastly different access to resources. That is literally and without interpretation what you are saying. What, then, is the argument for increasing the availability of resources to this population, in terms of reducing alcoholism? We fundamentally here believe that it will do nothing but determine which ones become alcoholics, rather than alleviate the actual problem.
Kirara 🚗
if we exist in one way and then we make another way of existing more similar to the way we exist in, those two ways of existing will look similarly
Kirara 🚗
>>524826 the fact that increasing access to those resources won't be helpful is just an argument that we have to end the system that it isn't helpful in there are cultural reasons people aren't using those resources because, yes, culture influences our decision making if all you do is change availability of information, but you keep everything else the same, there's no reason to expect change considering society doesn't value information
Yes, of course you see it that way, but on what basis do you support increasing their availability of resources, then? Because, I assume, you do that, right?
Your culture is your environment for fuck's sake. What is 'the environment' to you, trees and rocks?
Like, what is the point, by what right even do we extend help to a population with a problem, knowing that we fundamentally believe all we accomplish is deciding who becomes alcoholics, rather than reducing alcoholism? For the level to remain the same despite our efforts, the maximum we can do is shift around alcoholism, determining those with the resources already to seek help are more deserving of assistance, and dumping alcoholism on someone else. Intentionally or not is irrelevant, this is by your own statements what we fundamentally must believe we are doing.
Kirara 🚗
culture is more than environment, dude
sk
Culture is literally nothing but your environment and your own experience of culture.
sk
Not a single cultural concept exists from yourself entirely.
Kirara 🚗
>>524830 ??? what are you even saying? are you drunk or something?
>>524832 culture directly influences the development of the self
sk
You're saying native americans would have the same alcoholism rate as the rest of society, despite knowing their genetics isn't the only factor affecting their decision not to get help
Kirara 🚗
genetics isn't influencing their decision to get help or not
Like I don't understand how you can possibly support things like more availability of mental healthcare if you believe its only effect is to shift around the problem.
Kirara 🚗
that's not my belief???? and i don't know where you got that idea?????
sk
Then why the FUCK would native americans, with less access to these resources than the rest of the american population, somehow remain at the same level if the genetic difference was eliminated through magic or whatever They don't have access to the same level, yet their alcoholism is at the same rate This isn't a possibility if it's fucking effective
Kirara 🚗
you lost the plot, dude we already went over this
it doesn't matter if it's effective, effectiveness of the resources isn't relevant to this discussion
The fuck it isn't Your entire fucking stance is they can not be effective Or are you saying that somehow they're non-environmental when they work Or does the mind simply willingly override the decision the physical processes would otherwise dictate?
I don't even understand how you can be for any sort of social good if you genuinely believe it does nothing but shift the victim status around in the population. That's a ridiculous affair, it does nothing
Kirara 🚗
i don't know how to refute the things you want me to try to refute because they aren't my arguments
I don't think you understand where your own beliefs lead
Kirara 🚗
i do, but you don't understand my beliefs you have an idea of where they lead (which is wrong) so my beliefs don't make sense to you because they don't lead there
sk
They don't make sense to me because I don't see how you can stand for what you do, yet believe this
i believe that people are thrown into the world and that both they and the world have characteristics which serve to limit their freedom of choice and that people navigate the world by making choices within those limitations to me, it does not make sense to be an anarchist unless you believe in freedom, because otherwise you can just engineer an environment in which a state can work and be invulnerable from corruption, which you can't, because people can make decisions that go against what the environment dictates their behavior should be to deny that people have freedom is, in my opinion, authoritarian and serves only to rob people of their freedom
if someone is sad and drinks, they are drinking because that is the choice they made. even if are making that decision thinking their choice is "drink or do not drink", drinking is their choice.
yes, the world around us does provide limitations to our freedom. i talk about this frequently. i can't go live in the forest mountains because there are limitations on my freedom. i can't flap my arms and fly because there are limitations on my freedom. if someone points a gun to my head and tells me to open a safe, i can choose death over opening that safe if i want to. i am free to make decisions in my life, and there is no guarantee that i am going to make "rational" decisions, because humans are not rational beings. they are emotional, beautiful creatures that make decisions without considering all of the options or consider too many options, or consider options too closely, or choose not to choose.
It's a concept, but it's fundamentally broken THere's just little reason to go through the entire theoretical backing when discussing something with another anarchist, there's no disagreement there that needs to be cleared up
ToN
sip
Anno
>>524854 My bad, I just woke up. I made a bad choice to butt in between your discussion .
Kirara 🚗
>>524850 why not? people /// if people are only products of their environment, it should be possible to make an environment where corruption isn't possible
i hope >>524849 helps you understand my views since you seem to have been having trouble following them
I don't think it's a thing for a state to be free of corruption, not menaingfully. Corruption isn't meaningful if its against the interest of the ruling class for which the state exists
You can call it corruption, it certainly can go against the intent of the state, but that's not actually a problem and rarely what we mean by corruption. Nobody is upset about corurption leading to a better life for people, acting in the interest of the oppressed.
Just as racism isn't when black people call a white guy a cracker You can see it as that if you think racism is just "when someone is mean to someone of another socially constructed race", but this isn't why racism is bad.
sk
Like what we regard as corruption of the state machine is what the purpose of the institution is. The suppression of popular interest in the interest of the rulers' interest.
Yes, that is the project of anarchism. To engineer a reality where no more oppression takes place, and people as a result, because the environment you exist in determines your behavior, do not self destruct or harm others any more. >>524864 The state de facto can not ever be anything but oppressive.
Kirara 🚗
well, you can get rid of oppression just by engineering the state in a way that isn't oppressive, if all that matters is the environment
Because that's what a state is. Authority does not exist without oppression. >>524867 It is, though.
Kirara 🚗
that's not an answer
Kirara 🚗
it's not. i'm wondering how deeply you can actually support your arguments against a state "what's oppressive about a state?" "states are oppressive, that's what they are"
Well what is a state, then? Are you so idealist you think you can engineer a system wherein you give a monopoly of violence to a group, and have them use it in service of the people they have authority over at their own detriment?
Kirara 🚗
no, my philosophy easily justifies why states are bad
but if people are the product of their environment, then you can make an environment in which the ruling class works for the people
sk
The environment includes your social role To exclude it is idealism, and the same mindset allowing liberals to believe the bourgeoisie will give up their power if only they are to see its ill effects.
ToN
im going to consume a teak
Kirara 🚗
>>524871 then you can change social roles through behaviorism
sk
You can not make a social role which is at its core the authority over others into one which does not have that authority
Anno
>>524872 I am hungry. I am thinking of if i want a omelette or just toast.
Because its the structure perpetuating oppression Which leads to people having worse lives >>524878 I don't see how you could possibly do that
Kirara 🚗
so why can't you just engineer it without oppression? if people are the product of their environment, you can just train people not to be oppressive and then bam, no oppression
Can you, given the opportunity to talk to all of the bourgeoisie and unlimited time, end class rule by explaining the situation to them? Of course not. They will eventually agree with you, perhaps, and simply disregard it.
The police can never be trained to not be oppressive
Kirara 🚗
it's hard to argue with you because you don't understand what you're arguing you're using behaviorist lingo, talking about behaviorism, and then you don't understand the foundations that those lingos and arguments are based on
sk
I don't understand your position, that's clear because what I'm interpreting is at odds with everything I know you to stand for
Kirara 🚗
what do i stand for and how are my arguments at odds with it?
You stand for radical environmental change which you believe will improve people's lives I don't think you believe the social ills like addiction of various forms would be a reality once capitalism is eliminated and society is built in a horizontal manner. Certainly not to the same extent
sk
Your arguments are seemingly at odds with that, because you believe the genetics of native americans are the only factor altering their rate of alcoholism, despite their existing difference in access to other resources for their problems. I don't see why you want to radically change society if you don't think doing so would actually improve lives.
Kirara 🚗
i do think it would improve lives and even said so >>524849 i don't think that capitalism is the only problem but i do think the system we live in is the major factor that's limiting our freedom in limiting our freedom, it hurts us considerably there are many other cultural issues that need to be addressed in order to create a world where we all have the most freedom possible
>>524886 it's not determining their choices i can still choose to die instead of opening the safe
I'm not saying capitalism is the only factor, either I'm saying capitalism is an entirely environmental factor that demonstrably impacts people's choice making. They're not free from their environment, they can't go against what the machine that is their brain does.
Kirara 🚗
i don't believe that people are machines, well - i'd argue that i know they aren't machines and i know that people can rebel against their behavioral programming
I don't understand why you're bringing in rationality earlier either. Rational decision making isn't something that's factored in here, it's wholly irrelevant how rational any decision is. The point is a machine is making it. >>524890 There is a right decision for any goal
Kirara 🚗
you were saying that there was a "right" decision, which i interpreted as you saying that meant the decision that was rational
Yes, but there's always at least one if the goal is possible, and decisions that don't lead there aren't among them. >>524892 No, they don't. They have no obligation to. They can't have an obligation to. Being a machine doesn't make you rational
I guess I shouldn't have said it was rational, rather that it can appear rational, or in fact be because ones priorities are different.
Kirara 🚗
but people don't always make those decisions and have no obligation to people make "bad" decisions because they aren't rational
Kirara 🚗
i'm not sure i understand why you think my philosophy and what i stand for are at odds yet
I think I might need to like, take some time off from this and maybe we can bring it up again sometime, because explaining it properly would need some carefully thought out examples. I think Anno was right, and we're misunderstanding eachother
The arguments you were making reminded me of the book Walden Two, by BF Skinner. It's a novel about a commune founded entirely on behavioral principles, where the environment is engineered in a way that is supposed to ensure everyone is the happiest they can be. It's a rather short novel and something I used to endorse a lot.
>>524899 I don't know of a specific book that would help you understand my philosophy, but if you read about the 19th and 20th century existentialists, I think you can get a feel for it. Existentialism and anarchy have been closely linked together for a long time now. Even reading Thoreau would probably be useful, which is ironic because the way of life endorsed in Thoreau's Walden is much closer to how I'd like to live compared to Walden Two, which BF Skinner named in a sort of tongue-in-cheek mockery of Thoreau's Walden.
That sounds like the kind of thing I could read to understand why you think that would be something my philosophy would advocate But I'm not sure if it'll clue me in to your beliefs
yeah a lot of people see one aspect of someone's beliefs and assign them a label and then assume they fit that label
just because i want to live in the woods off the land doesn't mean i think that technology is related to oppression or that i think anyone else should have to do that
but the discussion between SK and i was initially existentialism vs behavioral determinism, and then later, whether or not existentialism and anarchism can be held by the same person as guiding philosophies
FormerRei@mobile
At the very least you have one aspect in common with primitivism.
FormerRei@mobile
I'll try to remember that then. However I will still probably tease you about it.
FormerRei@mobile
>>524909 Also I really appreciate the irony of people reading industrial Society and its future on computers. It amuses me to no end.
Kirara 🚗
i like to think about him sitting in a prison library glaring angrily at the computers
>>524909 I don't actually know what either of those are
Kirara 🚗
>>524914 behavioral determinism is the idea that people are /// that generally all life is the product of learning through its environment and nothing more (that's significant) people behave in the way they learn to behave just like other animals, and internal states aren't functionally important because behavior is determined by past learning and the environment existentialism is basically the opposite of that belief, that people have choices and they act on their decisions, and that human existence is basically the struggle of trying to cope with a cruel and meaningless world
My only real problem with that description would be that I suspect it doesn't consider the actual physical person as part of the environment of the mind, but part of and indistinguishable from the mind.
>>524916 it's more that whether or not there's a mind, it's not important because behavior is determined by everything outside of body the body is considered part of the environment, however for example, if someone is thirsty, there is an environmental state of lacking hydration, and the behavioral response to that stimulus is to drink water whether or not someone feels discomfort due to lacking hydration is considered to be an unnecessary extra step, so it's not considered, because what predicts the behavior is the stimulus of lacking hydration, rather than discomfort
That it's irrelevant how reality is perceived by the mind I think the mechanisms that make that happen are important Whether it's technically necessary for the mind to experience the discomfort consciously or not isn't something I know if is important, because whatever mechanism responds to it does cause the discomfort to be experienced anyway.
FormerRei@mobile
>>524921 I actually don't have access to water right now.
Kirara 🚗
>>524923 [skinner voice] if you had access to hydration, you would hydrate
skinner was a really weird dude you'd think he'd be more popular after coming up with the idea of pigeon missiles
FormerRei@mobile
>>524924 Okay I hydrated. The pigeon missiles were pretty amazing but most people couldn't see past the fact that they were silly.
Kirara 🚗
they really are rather silly
FormerRei@mobile
>>524926 At the time they were brilliant, they were useful. They were far better than other available missile guidance systems.
Kirara 🚗
>>524922 they would argue that even if there is internal discomfort, it's not the most important part for predicting the behavior the material consequences of behavior and the environment are all that really matter people learn behaviors through material consequences of behaviors and they learn to exhibit behaviors in relation to stimuli in the environment
>>524927 absolutely if the military had been headed by savvier folks, they probably would have gone through with it
I'm reading the wikipedia article for walden two, and this seems like extremely my jam It's just societal organization without authority
I'll need to read the whole book though, I guess
FormerRei@mobile
I prefer Walden 3: Revenge of the Sith
Kirara 🚗
>>524933 it's a pretty easy to read book i managed to read it in one or two sittings back in like 2014 skinner is a good writer one of the cool things about it is that skinner created the methods they use in the book after writing about them in the book created them as in, establishing them as science like 30 years later, he wrote Beyond Freedom and Dignity where he talks about a lot of them and his philosophy behind his radical behaviorism
Was this a world Skinner was attempting to advocate, or is it more of a 1984 thing, where the description is supposed to make you see the underlying flaws with the ideology behind it. >>524938 Was skinner a fucking anarchist?
Kirara 🚗
yes, skinner advocated that behaviorism be used to engineer a world without strife and believed that we should use psychology to eliminate social problems he wasn't an anarchist, his philosophy necessitates hierarchy
The structure of society in Walden Two, at least by wikipedia's description, is just straight up anarchistic though One of the characters says it's not, apparently, but it like, is. The central planners have no authority They're just organizers Their identity isn't even known, suggesting they might as well not actually exist as one specific legal group, but as a self-appointed group of people who have decided they want to organize people to more effectively improve the community Their lack of ability to use force for this necessarily means they need to organize as equals with everyone else, they just get the discussion going.
Kirara 🚗
skinner believed that improving society was about controlling people he loves the word control and explicitly uses it as much as possible he is against force because punishment isn't an effective way of changing behavior skinner basically advocated for re-education that people who were behaviorally ineffective or for example, racist, would be re-trained so that their behavior would be more informed by what the scientific literature says is better or more effective
But what IS re-education without force? It's just regular education Hell, regular education uses force
If there's no authority forcing someone to re-educate, the only other option is that he advocates they be made to self-crit and seek further information That's good.
Kirara 🚗
without force in the context of behaviorism means without physical force and skinner believed that we would have to use force to engineer the environment after we had done so, force wouldn't be necessary anymore and we would live without force happy and content as we were trained to be
Again though, that is the revolutionary project The overthrow of authoritarian institutions will require force, and once that's over we're going to need force very rarely again Because people will find themselves in a situation where yadda yadda I'm not going to lay down an anarchist manifesto here
Kirara 🚗
but it will not require brainwashing of the populace if any society came to me and told me they had a perfect society which they achieved through brainwashing, i would regard it with the same disdain that i do our current one
All of society is already brainwashing, though Correct information, even, is often presented because it's effective in changing people's minds, or at least it's thought to
Kirara 🚗
also walden two has non-democratically elected managers which can change the constitution of the commune as they please
sk
Like Skinner wasn't an anarchist as you say, so he'd consider even anarchist propaganda to be brainwashing
But the constitution doesn't matter They have no authority
What does it matter if someone can change the laws if there's no authority enforcing them
Kirara 🚗
they do have authority you should read the book >>524945 society isn't necessarily brainwashing and it actually encourages a diversity of thought to a certain extent (ignoring other diversities which aren't encouraged) a behaviorist world is more like the totalitarian regime of stalin than anything else, albeit with less violence perhaps
sk
Yeah, I definitely should I am just going by the wiki after all
Of course it accepts diversity of thought so long as it doesn't actually threaten the power structure This is theory 101
FormerRei@mobile
https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=113301 I really want to see this translated.
Kirara 🚗
>>524951 Walden Two is demcent if you don't like it there, you can go live in the city, or deal with the stuff you don't like and you aren't allowed to go against the demcent position walden two as a community actually votes in American elections and decides what all the members of the community will vote for
another issue with it is that changes made are all based on science even though there is much that science can't explain people are expected to have no expectation of human dignity because dignity doesn't exist and should be eradicated as an idea happiness also doesn't exist as an internal state, but as behaviors like smiling
it also requires benevolent leaders to make it run smoothly which is why i asked earlier if a state could be engineered in which there was no oppression walden two, after all, is steeped in hierarchy
I'll try to get some reading in during my breaks at work tonight and hopefully I can address it with you soon And probably most valuably, offer my criticisms of the authoritarian measures used within the society proposed
Kirara 🚗
>>524961 nice job! >>524962 is there anything i can read to better understand your view?
I'm not really sure if there are, none that I know of at least I haven't read a lot of works on this kind of topic, or any at all really that deal with it directly, so it's not like I can offer something that you haven't already read and see as compatible with your own views anyway
Like I mean, the bread book is kinda showing the kind of society I'm about, but both of us see the other's view as not leading to that
Kirara 🚗
kafka is someone i have been inspired by that explicitly discussed his admiration for kropotkin although kafka doesn't really have any works that would be easy to pin down my philosophical background with
I guess the danger begins when you read Lacan and Hegel
Kirara 🚗
hegel can suck a dick i have read some hegel but he can suck a thousand dicks he's such an asshole and thought he was literally better than everyone else
>colleague invites me over for game night >after several weeks agree to go >ask for address >"i think you're the only one coming tonight" oh no something has suddenly come up
>>524984 I don't really like him enough to hang out with just him. He's kind of a tryhard. He's not a bad guy but I don't really do well with tryhards.
Oh, "uncle Ted" I don't think I'd be able to learn anything from his writing so I've not read it I've skimmed some of it, but not enough to get a real idea about his argument or cause
>>524996 there was a version of starcraft that came out on the n64 that had multiplayer splitscreen aside from trying to play starcraft with console controls and having a HORIZONTAL split on an RTS it's so dumb to do splitscreen rts haha i played that shit with my dad it was silly
i should write a letter to ted and present to him records of so-called primitive societies that don't conform to the ideas that he claimed all primitive societies conformed to, like gender inequality, cruelty to animals, etc
>>525005 and he responds to most letters people send him as long as they're interesting
yeah he's in prison he still writes mathematical papers and publishes them with the prison as the institution address for the publication lmao it's great
sk
>>525003 What does he consider a primitive society?
Kirara 🚗
>>525007 he briefly describes it here https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/ted-kaczynski-letter-to-a-turkish-anarchist under the "primitive society" header
FormerRei@mobile
>>525005 Hell yeah He's practically a national treasure.
>>525010 he basically says that all of those societies were violent, cruel to animals, the woman was beneath the man, that they all engaged in intratribal competition for resources, and that kind of stuff he gives a few examples of ones that were certainly as he describes but there are plenty that are not or were not he is very good at making his arguments and is incredibly well-read i'm genuinely interested in how he'd respond to evidence contrary to what he believes of those societies he idealizes
月
idealizes is a strong word he doesn't think they're perfect just less egregious at least that's what i'd venture to say
Kirara 🚗
>>525013 by idealizes, i mean more that he has an unrealistic view of them, rather than that he thinks they're perfect he believes in many of the things he thinks primitive society believed in, but he doesn't have a full breadth of what those societies believed in i suspect that he ignored the ones that didn't conform to his beliefs when he was studying them and came up with an idealized view of them
月
he's acknowledged that reversion is infeasible and that humanity should take a concerned approach about moving forward with technology, and that we can't undo what's been done i'm not sure what his arguments behind it were but i'm in agreement because we've forgotten how to be an adequate primitive society technology has left a huge imprint on our social memory and is going to interfere with our ability as a society to cope
i mentioned the other day how i finally got a chance to talk to my downstairs neighbor and he was a tax consultant and shit
i just talked to this guy again and he is woke as fuck he starts talking about how sports and politics are all bought and sold and everyone is eating up media lies and being controlled by the government and they're all in on it and he's a 9/11 truther and a bin laden truther and all kinds of wild shit haha what the fuck is my life, how do i meet all these chatacters we were just talking about sports and the next thing i know we're talking about how the government is hiding aliens from us and they're sending people to go die in war for profits and everything is so fucked up that we just gotta try to live our lives the best we can, and how cops and judges and attorneys all got quotas they gotta meet and wtf i've talked to this dude at length once before now haha he's like "damn man i didn't know you was enlightened!" haha what the fuck
Anno
I mean there was that one guy I worked with at the bank office that seemed just like a totally normal kid until he started going off on me about manned Mars bases and how the Rothchild family controlled like 80% of the world's wealth. There's crazies hidden in plain sight all around.
月
judges and attorneys are p fucked up tbh public pretenders i call em back room deals with minorities' lives because they all know each other same public defenders day in day out "i gotta get this one man it's important i'll let you have the next three" "ok but you owe me" gotta get that $700 comp a life hangin in the balance don't matter
>>525030 yeah haha this guy went even further than rothchild, he said they're all scapegoats and that the real controllers don't even got knowable names and we'll never know their names or families
i started telling him about some of the fucked up shit i saw when i worked with the fbi and he got so excited haha and he was saying the government is trying to control the internet more so people can't get woke and see the glitches in the matrix and stuff
he was even saying shit like we don't need the government, all we need is each other haha it's so weird i can't believe that just happened to me, what are the chances of someone such a similar kind of crazy to me moves in below me
Kirara 🚗
when i mentioned i worked with the fbi in wyoming, he's like "shit, HERE, wyoming??"
月
>how to successfully conspire pay people to be outspoken conspiracy theorists of ridiculous things so that all conspiracies seem ridiculous and unbelievable to the public
the only really ridiculous conspiracy he said was the faceless rulers controlling all the rich people and that we are hiding aliens i believe tons of that other stuff so it can't possibly be ridiculous
>>525039 the faceless rulers is pretty true if you account for complex nonhuman forces the rulers definitely be bent by something i think it's just human intuition to assume it's other humans but it's prolly a lot more subtle
Anno
I think the 9/11 truther stuff is total whooey personally. At least if he's talking like that the towers couldn't collapse from the impact o f the plane. Because that part is nonsense. If he's about finding how much the leaders neglected information that the event was going to happen, sure, that's fine. But >>525042 this is nonsense.
Kirara 🚗
i'm actually not sure what brand of 9/11 truther he is now that i think about it i think he just thinks the government had the planes flown into the towers
月
there are legitimate questions to be asked about the happenings of 9/11 it's p disgraceful imo to completely discredit any questions that contest the narrative of events and that's been happening for a long time can't even ask the questions because you'll simultaneously get labelled a tinfoiler and also have your concerns discredited
Kirara 🚗
oh yeah i am also a 9/11 truther technically, i think the government had a ton to do with what happened
Kirara 🚗
i am more of the line of thought that the government was complicit in the attacks, not necessarily that they did them since we do know that the president was warned of the attacks and did nothing
Anno
I would agree with complicit due to indifference and inaction. But I would find it hard to swallow that the choice to do so originated from them.
My only thought about 911 is, that the people in power chose between two headline stories for the next day >government shoots down 4 passenger air planes or >a massive terror attack shaeks the world
Kirara 🚗
i could ease into it real slow >man you hear barbara fuckin streisand cloned her dogs? that cloning shit is out of control
月
>>525045 i definitely believe it's not only possible but probable that the narrative fits with regard to the FBI and CIA having protocol boundaries that kept them from sharing corroborating information while the idea of mass collusion is definitely exciting, the idea of government inadequacy aligns much better with reality
Kirara 🚗
yeah i think that's probably closer to the truth and then after it happened, might as well make money off it
月
it's more likely imo that a government coverup is going to cover up their own shortcomings it's not hard to spin malintent toward public approval and they could have done that imo fringe theorists suffer the same problem as conforming discreditors the lack of granularity to procedurally consider the development of a crisis it's all about impact there's a disconnect with reality imo on both ends one is an endorsed disconnection but they're both equally delusional
>>525113 Maybe but it would also cause a lot of issues.
Kirara 🚗
>>525113 maybe with enough time it would allow global warming to stop accelerating
FormerRei@mobile
It would also probably cause a lot of plane crashes
Maria
>>525116 yeah Thanos would probably have killed we more than just half of human life through this sort of thing A lot of doctors doing stuff like surgery could have died, people doing jobs that others relied on to live
Kirara 🚗
when you're killing trillions of people, an extra couple probably doesn't matter
Maria
The car crashes alone >>525118 making the mother of all omlettes here Jack
What if traffic lights snap us with high frequency subliminal messaging all the time?
FormerRei@mobile
>During the blackout, numerous looters stole DJ equipment from electronics stores. As a result, the hip hop genre, barely known outside the Bronx at the time, grew at an astounding rate from 1977 onward. LOL
Kirara 🚗
looting is great
FormerRei@mobile
>>525139 Not for the store owners Fun fact: stores in the poorest neighborhoods were affected the most
Kirara 🚗
they got new music to play in their stores it's a win win
FormerRei@mobile
Oh, son of sam is still alive. I'd forgotten how young he was.
>>525148 depends what you mean there are cults that worship satan but they don't generally go sacrifice people and stuff they usually just coopt neopagan rituals
>>525151 pretty good but i haven't even beaten it yet!
>>525150 Yeah I don't mean the new age stuff be it that levayn guy's thing or the other bit more recent
Kirara 🚗
into the breach is def a game as good as ftl maybe better
>>525152 ayn rand satanism (church of satan) is just right liberatarianism for edgy people temple of satan is basically agnostic or atheist and they just fuck around with people for laughs and politics
FormerRei@mobile
>>525153 Are they the ones who make all the law suits ffor freedom of religion stuff? Whichever group that is I like a lot.
>>525165 nah, that implies she'd be good at logic Which she wasn't Her whole thing was grossly misinterpreted objectivism with all sorts of wild conclusions drawn from illogical connections. The opposite of how philosopy is supposed to work.
>“Besieged by death’s tide at every turn, Sam Bridges must brave a world utterly transformed by the Death Stranding. Carrying the stranded remnants of the future in his hands, Sam embarks on a journey to reunite the shattered world one step at a time. What is the mystery of the Death Stranding? What will Sam discover on the road ahead? A genre defining gameplay experience holds these answers and more.” official death stranding description
that doesn't sound like a game about the afterlife to me sounds like the world got destroyed by something
>>525370 we already know that's referring to a baby though
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
He has to take the stranded remains of the world away from the death
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
what if it's multiple babies and he just has to carry like 50 babies
Kirara 🚗
that's possible considering we saw a baby inside him but we also know there's a baby in his container thing that shows him where the invisible monsters are
They gave Joker coma but it's got less than half the duration of Nio's at best. Which is fair. >>525386 Joker (naturally), as well as everyone up to Fox, since according to in-game dialogue it takes place right after Narotame
Kirara 🚗
no haru ree are they all fully voiced
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
Yeah you're not the only one who wished they had other characters yes they're all voiced
The next expansion for shadowverse is granblue themed and they're adding new leaders to go with it. Interestingly enough, they've chosen to dub them.
However, they've got some rough competition considering they've chosen characters like Cag and Vira whose japanese voices are kind of, uh... hard to compete with, at the very least.
I can't believe peter "verrit" daou broke and is now condemning capitalism and all the politicians and shit and is talking about fascism and shit somehow reality keeps throwing more and more unexpected shit into the mix
ToN
i sure am going to need my boat wife to get through today
