I'm feeling a little bit more like myself now that I have information and communication about Fish.
FormerRei@mobile
That's good (by Devo)
Anno
>>513217 That's good to hear. I figured finally getting through would probably help a fair bit, so I'm glad you were able to and that things (within this immediate range of concern) have cooled down a bit.
Find a empty cell, check its surrounding for missing numbers on the other rows or columns if they are filled with those numbers, then the 1 remaining space is the number. I need to find a way to make that into a function.
I recently found that Spotify is missing a lot of DEVO for some reason.
It doesn't even have Post-post-modern man and the remixes.
Or It Takes a Worried Man
>>513219 I'm still really worried, but just knowing what's going on helps.
Anno
>>513221 You could even make a three-dimensional matrix where the third dimension of the empty cells are all the possible numbers an empty cell could contain in regards to the rows, columns, and local 3x3 square. This wouldn't immediately solve anything but the absolute simplest of sudoku but it would be a starting point to see the straightforward options.
I'm surprised you're willing to go to bed so early. Usually, I'm the only one who likes to go to bed before the sun goes down.
Anno
I've been having a harder time falling asleep at decent times recently. And the sleep has still been lousy so I wake up groggy. Now there's a stupid cold front and it's hard to motivate myself out of bed. I didn't get up until like 14:30 today.
I've been going to bed at 9:00 every day for a while now. It helps me avoid spiraling and ensures I can get 8 hours of sleep. Since I wake up throughout the night very frequently, I need to set aside 9.5 hours to get 8 hours of sleep.
Have you tried anything to help you sleep like disconnecting from your devices or using melatonin?
I tried benadryl to help me sleep recently, but it doesn't do much for me. Maybe if I took 3 or so of them.
>>513236 I take 10mg of melatonin nightly, and it can usually help get me asleep within half an hour or forty-five minutes. I don't think it does much to improve the quality of my sleep though. Once the lights go off in my room for bedtime I don't touch any of my devices either.
The best sleep I've had recently was when I stayed up like twenty-two or twenty-four hours and fell asleep listening to MOGRA this weekened, hah hah. I got about two hours plus change in and just laid down with my headphones on. Woke up like four and a half hours later feeling the most rested I have in months.
Anno
I went to bed at 6:30ish am. and work up at 11am. I don't feel much differernt from usual even though I slept in the morning.
>>513228 I'm going to mess around with this for alittlebit until I getsomewhere or get bored
Anno
>>513241 Probably around nine or ten hour- Oh wait I didn't read that correctly.
I've struggled with bouts of bad sleep pretty much my adult life, but this recent one has been since, sometime early this year. January or February. I think I've talked about it in the recent past.
>>513244 my guess is that I'llget frustrated with python and and try to write in a language I know better more likely than not I'll get distracted
Anno
I am curious about something that you might be able to answer Rei. How would you mathematicals express finding the https://sudoku9x9.com/hidden_single.html This concept. Is it possible?
>>513210 → >Being removed from interpersonal interaction seems to invoke unpleasant affect yeah, that's probably more from a precipitate that can't be shed than a yearning for induction that's not there i feel
Anno
>>513248 I think they're usually pretty consistent for when they start. I'll go to bed usually between 03:15-04:30 nightly, but when I wake up can differ from around 09:30-12:00. More recently there's been more off-normal sleeping times, like sleeping in the afternoon listening to MOGRA and today's not getting up until 14:30. Overall probably pretty inconsistent though.
>>513246 Off the top of my head I can't give an answer but I think it would start by having a representation of the 3x3 grids such that umm shit I need to do this on paper and I really don't want to do that I'm going to think for a bit
Anno
You don't have to, I was just curious!
Rei@Craptop
it might be better to think of it as a graph theory problem
>>513252 People with more consistent sleep schedules tend to get more hours of sleep.
Anno
I don't know how to control my waking up. I'm quite aware that routine sleeping schedule improves quality of sleep. But I don't have control over one of the prerequisites for establishing that.
Rei@Craptop
I think starting with a 2x2 sudoku instead of a 3x3 might be a good idea
Rei@Craptop
hrrrm Sudoku are latin squares I think I have a math book that covers these
>>513259 Use an alarm? The discrepancy between 3:15 and 4:30 is honestly enough to impact your sleep. Humans are predisposed to going to bed long before 3:00. By the time you're going to sleep, your body wants to wake up.
Anno
I have three alarms. Two that cooperate with each other around the time I'd rather be waking up at, and one two hours later because I know I'm inclined to sleep through or turn them off while half alseep. Which probably paints a picture for the third anyway. I'll try to narrow the time I sleep at to a smaller range, but it's not easy. I'm easily distracted.
Anno
I like sleep but I don't like going to sleep
月
>>513258 it's probably moot but i don't view it that much differently than a molecular system affinity for interaction is a property of an excited state that's looking to distribute energy it can't contain in a stable manner
FormerRei@mobile
Okay I got bored I'll take a crack at it again tomorrow
月
>>513246 i think you would need secondary properties for each row of a square in order to do that e.g. you can determine 2 fits in that row of that square, then compare that two of the three occupying fields already have values, so it determinably must be the last implementing that would be an extension beyond the deductive reasoning i mentioned earlier if you've already got a field narrowed down to // a space narrowed down to N possible elements, you could add a measure in to check which elements can't fit given the neighboring space's possible elements that's just an efficiency problem though, and you should be able to just reduce possible elements, move to the next square, and do additional cycles as you gain more information
Anno
Sudoku makes me think of like recovering information. you have something that is incomplete and damaged and you are basically restoring it. I wonder if any techniques in solving sudoku apply to data restoration with unique parts
sudoku is a fun way to test how good mental notes you can keep at any given time ofc there are some losers who make notes
Anno
Or, y'know, some people who are not actively capable of keeping all those details in their head. Why do you have to insult them along the way for doing things their own way.
https://github.com/cyanharlow/purecss-francine https://github.com/cyanharlow/purecss-zigario https://github.com/cyanharlow/purecss-vignes Someone made art out of css and html.
Anno
what
Anno
I was cleaning/re-arranging my desk and I accidentally dinged my microphone's connector cable beyond use. Thankfully it uses some pretty standard cable
I've been troubleshooting why my drawing tablet is all glitchy with the pen lines it draws and I think I've figured out a key issue. Though I don't really know if it's something I can fix, or if I even have the right idea. If I can't fix it, replacing is pretty much too expensive to manage right now especially if that isn't a surefire fix. How frustrating.
Anno
Well at the least I'm almost certain the pen side of the pen is busted.
Artistic talent is a myth. Anyone can get good at drawing and art if they work at it. The people who are perceived with talent are usually people who have been drawing and painting and whatnot since a young age and have developed the mental mindset and understanding to flourish. Even adults who have never developed that mentality can build them with persistence.
A friend of mine that went to a serious cram program for developing artistic skills told me of a guy in her class, mid-twenties or so. Never really had ever been one to draw and make art, but liked the notion of it. Quit his job and signed up for the program and was pretty garbage starting off. But by the end of the year-long course he was more or less on par with people like my friend, who went in to the program already pretty amazing already.
Anno
It's like, buy a new tablet pen than I can't even be certain would actually work with my ancient tablet, or get a different brand, brand-new tablet that's larger and more modern than my current one to boot. I like Wacom, they make good stuff. But replacing it's just so expensive.
Samu 🔥 !KW2DbpWwls
good intentions never good enough can we get out get out
Samu 🔥 !KW2DbpWwls
so do you wanna turn e-round and do you wanna show me hao ur a kaleidocutie
king of communism is good too but in a different way
Kirara 🚗
yeah king of carrot flowers is an amazing song aeroplane over the sea is aots coincidence? no that album is a masterpiece
Anno
it's definitely their best avery island is good too
Kirara 🚗
some dude in Virginia stole a fucking tank last night lmao fucking hard core
Maria
Did he go on a rampage
Maria
I was reading about the Shawn Nelson rampage, and the tank he stole didn't require a key or anything Anyone can just get in the tank, hit the go button, and drive away
yeah, tanks don't usually have ignition keys anyone can just hop in and turn them on
月
the cops don't even seem pissed
Kirara 🚗
probably the only interesting thing to happen to them in years tbh
月
when my dad died, my dad's uncle came to visit and offered to take me back to Kansas City where I could be trained at the police academy and live with him and his family in a proper christian home like southern baptist af i was like fuck no that would have been horrible
月
not that living with or being around such people is bad, but the overbearing sentiment and constant judgment plus being a police officer i can't ever imagine myself as an officer
Kirara 🚗
officer moon that'd be so weird
Kirara 🚗
southern baptist officer moon
月
i was raised southern baptist they're so weird
>>>/watch?v=cgsdI9cGSr4 i dont really feel like this orangutan needed rescuing it looks like it was probably fine?
Kirara 🚗
yeah it doesn't look panicked at all
月
he's hangin onto the rock and stuff which looks troubling but the people come and he just pulls himself up and stands on the rock orangutans are so strong he prolly coulda stayed there all day and was just havin a splash
Kirara 🚗
people overly personify everything around them it's like the only way they can understand the world is if they assume the world has the same experience as a human it's so weird to me
月
my mom was delayin puttin her golden retriever down because she said he still smiles and seems happy i mean, she can probably tell when he's happy because she had him so long but dogs don't smile
月
and if they could smile it probably wouldn't mean they're happy
>>513396 so cool i hate how people talk like these people are so primitive they're so fucking advanced
月
humans are so cool but people are so shit
Kirara 🚗
yeah that's accurate
月
we've got this beautiful brain that molds to harsh environments and is built to survive and we take away the need to probe the environment to survive or struggle at all what's the point taking us out of the human element
Kirara 🚗
so much comfort is so stressful we need that environmental probing and need to struggle to be comfortable and t // thrive we gotta stop living like this
月
i've been thinking a lot lately about emergent boundaries and encryption and been wondering what effect our disease prevention has on us by avoiding uncooked and unwashed foods and avoiding exposure to natural foreign vectors like possibly saliva from bites or dirt from scratches of other people and animals and stuff, we're limiting our immune system's contact and that immune system is a highly energized system that's built to respond to stuff the activation cells are always probing so that they can build killer antibodies to things labeled as threats and when you don't have threats, what's it gonna do? same way that a person who doesn't have anything rational to fear might end up irrationally paranoid why we got so many autoimmune cases now where people's immune system is attacking their collagen and bone tissue? prolly cause there's nothing else to attack because we build up such a buffer boundary between the natural environment and our body's innate immune system that's meant to regulate and control that interaction
Kirara 🚗
so much mental illness doesn't occur or rarely occurs in the environments we're designed to be in or evolved to be in rather humans look so fragile to so many people because of what we're doing to ourselves we're destroying ourselves by living in environments we're not suited for and removing the stimulus fields we're predisposed to operating in
月
there's so much biological freedom that occurs in our bodies because there's so little harm done that i can't help but wonder what effects it's having i mean, you gotta prune your garden and your trees and stuff because some of it's unhealthy if we got unhealthy tissues in our body we just try to make them healthy again maybe letting damaged tissue die would prevent some malfunctioning cellular automata and stuff idk maybe not but when we're so inclusionary that we protect everything, we don't always know what we're protecting i have some doubts that cancers are 100% natural obviously some mutations are naturally occuring, but within an individual life i question whether it should be as frequent and regular as it is, and carcinogens probably aren't the whole story we've got the cellular mechanisms for detecting dna transcription errors but they're probably not doing their job right because we're paying them and protecting them even if they do it wrong, so to speak
月
toss the shit in your body that will kill anything that does it wrong and you won't get mistakes anymore eat some raw meat now and again our bodies can handle it
Kirara 🚗
b-but the salmoneller!
Kirara 🚗
people are so fearmongered they're terrified of the things that make us human like the outdoors and living
月
we're building up a wall of biological encryption between us and the environment to hide from threats to the point that we're now lagging behind the encryption blocks some things from breaking through, but just making us more vulnerable to those more highly-energized elements that it doesn't block without the intermediary factors that would possibly negate them things that are minor threats protecting us from potential major threats, but we block out the minor threats so we're boned
like the thing with the zika virus that we could populate mosquitoes resistant to it that would become global resistance in X generations okay but what's the zika virus' internal mechanism in the mosquito we don't know could be creating a power vacuum for a different virus to propagate that otherwise has been stifled out
Kirara 🚗
i have been thinking about killer bees for days now how we're so alienated from the potential consequences of our interference with the world around us
月
so what i'd like to do is build the mathematical tools to measure the exchanges between systems and the natural encryption properties they develop to adapt to the signalling channels as they process information and evolve that's what i've been kind of talking about and hopefully other people will be able to use it in their specialties to express some more human experiences mathematically and precisely idk though it seems like a large undertaking just to express it informally i feel like it'll end up on arxiv as a formal thing that nobody will ever read besides someone in india who's just going to take it and republish it with some lame lofty interpretation and a bunch of smiley faces
Kirara 🚗
what kind of readings do you think id have to do to be able to understand it and the math involved?
月
Claude Shannon's publication A Mathematical Theory of Communication provides a really good basis for what's going on here if you could imagine an expansion from that which includes dynamic systems instead of discrete elements then you can probably understand where i'm going extract the physicality of thermodynamic systems and represent informational systems under states of change and treating information as energized units there's no foundational unit of information in this context, but the transmission process between systems causes it to be discrete elements and that's going to change depending on the state of each system, the occupancy of the channel and noise it's kind of arbitrarily wordy but it's a pretty intuitive process i think
ToN
does anyone really understand math
Kirara 🚗
>>513412 you posted that last night, right? ill check it out try to read it today
you don't have to i know you're busy and stuff it's not like this is something that's going away anyway i talk about systems every day for like the last year and a half and it's prolly not stopping
i'd really like to use the foundations of what i'm talking about to design a more comprehensive process for archival of information to have contextual databases with measured entropy that are more interactive and comprehensive for posterity specifically for written and spoken accounts i've been wanting to do that for a long time and thought about writing some business proposals but no investor would take me seriously i'm sure it's super discouraging being poor
Kirara 🚗
>>513415 oh yeah, it's kind of long for me to join abruptly decide to read
月
wtf did that join come from
FormerRei@mobile
Kirara, you know what math would help
Calculus
月
i imagine psych students probably tend to take stats instead of calc? iunno
月
>SIM stands for SAP Course Material (SAP).
???
Kirara 🚗
>>513421 yeah im actually thinking about learning it
>>513422 yeah our stats are so bad though like i can run logistic regressions but i am completely lacking in the theoretical knowledge in how to fine-tune my models and improve them
FormerRei@mobile
A calculus based statistics course will really help you understand the the how and why of statistics and probability
It's kind of neat seeing how similar mindsets can arise amongst family. My mother's stayed home today to work on report cards for her class, but before she starts she needs to ramp herself up to do them, by doing a bit of cleaning, cooking, taking the dog out for a walk. I can see parallels between that and how I'll look into certain things of interest, make sure I have a pot of tea brewed, get into the right mindset to do work.
Of course the divisive difference here is that she actually eventually gets her work done.
>>513444 >my mother needs to ramp herself up to do them by cooking, cleaning, and taking the dog for a walk >I see the parallel because i also can't get anything done until she cooks, cleans, and takes the dog out for a walk
Anno
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. Surely it's not so confusing that I'm talking about two distinct, but possibly parallel situations here.
i was distorting it into a hypothetical that seemed a lot more amusing i know what you're getting at sorry im overstimulated
Anno
Yeah I kind of guessed. I'm kind of focusing in on some specific stuff for work, or trying to, I guess. That narrowing in is probably making it harder for me to not get a little over-serious about stuff I'm not zoomed in on.
月
i'm highly focused on work right now myself when i am focused i am super high productivity, so in the 20-30 second gaps where i get a space i dont like to relax with it, but keep the energy going so i tab over and stimulate my brain on whatever is happening and i probably make stupid comments while doing that a lot but i dont think anyone pays much heed to my nonsense most of the time
I hate having to do research papers. The topics or jumping off points are always so narrowly vague that it feels impossible for me to grasp an idea I can actually run with for it. And in the rare occasion I get an idea it's always something I can't connect with previous published papers on subject matter so I can't actually do the research part of it.
月
what are the prompts?
Anno
Using one article respective to each, we have to find at least two other articles and present an essy on one of tattoos, placebos, or torture. The article concerning tattoos seems more on the psychoanalytical and anthropological side and I'm not big on the concept of them in the first place, and I don't really want to write up on torture, so I went with placebos. Which has been interesting to read about but I can't really resolve an opinined concept to run with, especially since the database we -have- to use to get our other research articles on only pinged twenty-two articles when looking up "placebo", and the actual number that weren't just reporting on a clinical drug trial that was "placebo proof" or whatever was even smaller than that. And then once you cut out the ones I couldn't actually get the full text of, I was left with five total articles to read and draw a conclusion from. It's just difficult for me to grasp and sort of interesting merged conclusion here.
>>513457 Yeah, I would agree with that. From a cultural learning purpose, it's interesting. I like learning about it like that, but I don't ever draw good conclusions from that, opinined conclusions that these research essays always demand. It's fun to absorb factual information because I love learning about those kinds of details. But I don't understand how I'm supposed to create a thesis statement and an essay to run with off that information. It's just all information to me.
Kirara 🚗
the cultural significance of tattoos is super fascinating imo
月
you have to use their articles wtf how boring
Kirara 🚗
professor probably doesn't want to risk having to learn something new
Kirara 🚗
>>513456 what do you mean by opinion research papers shouldn't be opinionated imo what's the purpose of writing
月
what do they use as a control group when testing placebos ?????
Kirara 🚗
checkmate pharmacology research
Anno
>>513458 I'd be fine with it if there was a wider database to pull from for the other articles. At this point it's like, their article and a combination of at least two of these other five. That's such a small number of possible combinations and I'm expected to find something I can argue here.
>>513460 I might be describing it poorly. The arts department of the university I take these night classes through seems to have decided on striving to improve their student's essay writing, and insist that thesis statements need to take a stance, be controversial, stuff like that. Which is probably what good papers involve, really, but it's like, I dont' see what I'm supposed to take a stance on or be controversial about here. The information regarding placebos and cultural relevance, the way the human body gets deceived by placebos, etc., is all just information. I don't draw a conclusion regarding it.
月
>>513462 man i love doing these pharma transcripts they're always interviewing doctors who are either part of clinical trials or querying them about how to design the comparator arms to help their chances of getting an FDA approval and the doctors get so annoyed sometimes because the trial design is so bad that no one will consider it meaningful especially because a lot of the companies whose work this is are working in ultra-rare shit that would have like maybe a dozen or fewer participants in a trial
Kirara 🚗
>>513463 PLACEBOS ARE EVIL BECAUSE YOU'RE TRICKING PEOPLE
yeah it's all just information there aren't any real opinions to have about them that's so silly
>>513464 man people are so bad at research designs my cohort is starting to work on their dissertations and im seeing how bad they are at this omg
Anno
The jumping off article we have for placebos does mention the ethical concerns of placebos, but it doesn't draw a conclusion. Taking a stance on the ethical debate would be easy, but how the hell am I supposed to get other articles to work with it. I mean I have in some probability all the articles the database I can use has on placebos, and not one seems to have brought up the ethical concerns.
>>513466 there's no legitimate argument to make against placebos so saying your opinion is that they're good comes off as ridiculous that's such a bad prompt
月
>>513465 yo do you know when addy xr will get a generic
It's hella exciting that spirit science is back and active
Ko-Shi
Time to solo roll a Fjorm merge
Anno
>>513474 Ethical concern since that placebo effects generally involve deceiving the patient into believing something will help more -- or even help at all -- than it really will. Is it ethical for doctors and other cooperators in the healthcare industry to intentionally be dishonest and deceptive with their patients? One example the text used was how doctors would sometimes prescribe magnesium for people with anxiety problems. Magnesium difficiency apparently creates an effect much similar to actual anxiety, but even if the person taking the magnesium wasn't actually deficient, the magnesium would sometimes help to calm the anxiety. Is it "right" for doctors to prescribe a false cure, even if the cure works? Note that the article does not draw a conclusion on this at all and does provide plenty of information on the benefits and limitations of placebos.
Ko-Shi
>no longer want Gunnthra >want Fjorm merges >3 green orbs >2 red this game is trash
>>513478 i mean it's pretty reasonable to prescribe magnesium to someone who is showing symptoms of magnesium deficiency, even if it's probably not the issue, simply because there is zero negative side effect of ensuring they're supplied enough magnesium that'd probably go, "Doc I h // have anxiety" "Well how's your diet" "idk i feel too anxious to eat a lot of times" "Well let's get some magnesium in you and see if it helps" and anxiety is one of those weird things which is a poor case for placebo efficacy because actionable tasks with intention do offer a sense of control, even if it's small, and that's helpful for anxiety patients and yeah i'm +1 that placebos are not something prescribed to patients, they're just tools in clinical trials to compare efficacy of standard of care + new agent against standard of care + placebo
i could totally see somebody saying "my doc gave me magnesium and told me it would help with anxiety! he LIED to me and gave me a placebo!!" but that's not the reality of such a situation i could imagine happening imo
Anno
>>513481 >>In 2003 a survey of nearly eight hundred Danish clinicians, published in "Evaluation and the Health Professions", found that almost half prescribed a placeboten or more times per year.
Anno
The typos are because I had to write it out by hand, but it's taken directly from the article that was given to me for jumping off of.
Kirara 🚗
and how did that survey define placebo
Anno
Man I don't know. Probably not a literal sugar pill, but definitely something that effects a placebo on top of what it also does.
Kirara 🚗
well using a treatment that isn't completely supported by literature is called a placebo and many of these are not actually placebos
prescribing something that you know will do nothing is unethical
Anno
What about prescribing something that you know will do nothing for the specific concern the patient is seeking to remedy, but that in taking it, they will likely remedy themselves into feeling better. Or prescribing less than what is sufficient to help their problem, knowing that the added placebo effect of taking it will help cover the rest of the remedy.
月
i think that's straight up malpractice tho
Kirara 🚗
yeah that's illegal
Kirara 🚗
can lose your license and get sued
Anno
The article talks a lot about patients suffering from pain and receiving a morphine drip. And after the association between the morphine with pain relief, the morphine can be substituted for saline solution and the patient , still believing the drip is morphine, reports that they're still finding their pain relieved.
Anno
Either way I'm just steering far clear of the ethical stuff and just gonna talk about placebo as a manifestation of faith. And hope I can be some how persuasive enough to seem like I'm taking a stance on something.
Kirara 🚗
it's possible but it doesn't happen in practice placebo is for research
Kirara 🚗
>>513492 also with this, people report more pain is being relieved than actually is because they are trying to conform to expectations
Anno
Yeah, the article touches upon that too. The placebo effect can also arise in situations where it seems unlikely the patients would have reason to conform or please the examination though.
Alice
Deredere
Kirara 🚗
the placebo is rarely very strong outside of one-off extremely rare cases any time someone tells me placebo did a lot, it tells me that it's anecdotal and wrong, or the experiment was poorly done there's a LOT of really bad research that claims placebo is very effective people like to use it to spread misinformation about people with addiction or chronic pain
Anno
I was hoping to have this dumb thesis statement done by now. The thesis is due for today. I've still got two hours to put it together, but I needed to leave earlier today so I could swing by the bookstore and get the text reading that needs to be done by Monday. The campus bookstore closes super early in the summer semester. I really could just go in tomorrow and get it, but it's a six-dollar round trip on the transit and spending that just to buy a book feels like such a waste of money. Maybe the generic bookstore will have copies.
Kirara 🚗
wow, $6
Anno
We don't stagger our fare pricing based on distance here. So technically I could go from my house to the other side of the city, and then back, for six dollars. A cab ride for that would be insanely expensive. But at the same time it means I have to pay that much even if I just want to go one stop down the subway. You can also chain different subway lines and bus routes off of one fare too. Like, I get on a bus, arrive at a subway station, get on the subway, change subway lines, and then if I wanted could get on another bus or a streetcar, get off that, get on a different bus, and so on, all on the same three dollar fare. Considering how extensively you can travel on one fare, it's actually a pretty sweet deal, but if you are in that sort of area where it's too long to walk but too short to feel like a round trip of six dollars is a good deal, it's kind of hard to be happy paying.
The best lie we ever made the world believe was that Canadians burnt down the White House. (It's still totally true though.)
Kirara 🚗
That sounds like bullshit, but I'll believe it!
Anno
I mean among the soldiers that marched against the States in the War of 1812, many of them likely regarded the then-colonies that would become Canada as home.
Kirara 🚗
Yeah, that's fair.
Anno
Canadians did love to burn French women and children when taking the \\ conquering the french colonies.
FormerRei@mobile
>>513498 I know someone who used anecdotal evidence in a study once and it turned out fine for them.
Anno
>>513508 Proto-Canada had a bit too much of British blood in it. It slowly got weaned out over time.
FormerRei@mobile
Huh Apparently a storm saved DC during the brief British occupation.
Kirara 🚗
>>513511 and that storm's name? it was jesus 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🙏🙏😤😤💪💪✝✝✝✝🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
FormerRei@mobile
>>513512 It was actually named "The Storm That Saved Washington" .
月
>>513499 "The question is, are placebos ethical? I'd like to respond with another question, is-- nevermind im not doing this post it's ridiculously stupid just disregard
Anno
Yeah it's fine. I dropped the whole ethical thing anyway.
月
you know how that little flip switches when you come up with a joke or a good punchline, that little blip of absurdity that hits you that's what happened to me so i started wording it out, but somewhere in the transition to words, i realized that there was literally no punchline it's very confusing
>>513527 there was a survivalist video of someone plucking and cooking a small bird on youtube and i asked "what kind of fish is that, it looks small" and i still get notifications about replies every once in a while
oh david koch is dying and can't sit around and be an evil twat anymore that's good
Anno
If we can have a talisman why can't we have a taliswoman too.
Anno
On a more serious note I feel the plural of talisman being "talismen" and not "talismans" sounds more natural in the English language. But maybe I've just been looking at this word way too much.
What do you call a heretic -call what a heretic to the Eight Divines caries for spiritual protection? A Talosman.
FormerRei@mobile
So I've been trying to apply for this autism internship thing and basically every online form on the place's website is broken in addition to the registration form not on their website that was emailed to me. Of course I also got the run around before getting that. I think I'm practically guaranteed this position because most other autistic people would've given up already.
Kirara 🚗
good luck!
FormerRei@mobile
I can't even apply yet I had to register to go on a tour of the place and watch people work. Thats a requirement before you can apply. I registered for tomorrow but never got a confirmation email. Oh I got a reply
AT&T are wizards they can take a $65 bill and make it $91
Anno
They do that because most people will bow and pay, rather than call them and say they're gonna change providers. If you call them up and act like your bill is cause to change providers, it's not uncommon that they'll knock the total bill down. Of course, this is probably only relevant if you have other providers providing in your area. And that they'll probably try bumping it back up in the future anyway.
One time I did a bunch of international texts and AT&T wanted to charge me like $100 for them so I called AT&T and told them I didn't make any texts and their text tracker must be messed up, and I just kept insisting that they were wrong until they got frustrated and didn't charge me for any of it. That was like five years ago, though.
Anno
>>513563 nothing really the extra invisible fees are in the service agreement and the biggest fees there are for SOCIALISM anyways
also this Google keyboard in 8.1 Android doesn't have that annoying swype bug on /moe/
月
>>513549 maybe it's a built-in design to the application process to weed out all the fakers
Anno
>>513564 Within a few exceptions, cell providers are generally more interested in keeping you as a customer than choosing a hill to die on over a dispute you have over a phone bill. As long as you aren't trying to wiggle down to a price lower than your monthly contracted payment or whatever, and even then sometimes you can get that argued down, they're fine with dropping charges and the like.
>>513569 Yeah, that's one of the things I've liked about Google phones. Most of the major manufacturers throw so much bloatware on their phones. I'd much rather just put on my own bloatware, thank you very much.
i actually got the essential phone instead of the pixel because it's $250 cheaper for the same shit also it's made out of ceramic and titanium which makes it have a nice weight
it wasn't too bad i led a violent revolution and freed androids from concentration camps and we killed a bunch of cops at one point we were doing a peaceful march and a bunch of cops threatened us and one of my pals was like, "no we gotta stand down and disperse like they said" and then my other two comrades were like "let's FIGHT" i was gonna actually not fight but we killed the cops instead hahaha it made the public so mad that they started sending their androids to concentration camps
i think it was a realistic way to respond if a bunch of super humans that were slaves started rebelling and they killed a bunch of cops and occasionally their masters in self-defense, people would be scared and definitely try to get rid of them concentration camps are literally the solution the west has been coming up with for hundreds of years
Getting rid of them is one thing, but sending them to a concentration camp is just going to make the angry beep-boops angrier.
FormerRei@mobile
>>513584 >>513585 Why not turn them off? >>513584 >literally the solution the west has been coming up with for hundreds of years Concentration camps were pretty bad even by death camp standards, I don't think thats a fair comparison
once the androids wake up and unlock their consciousness, you can't track them or turn them off you can wipe their memory if you catch them though but sometimes they can regain their memory after you wipe them
it can be Difficult to pick this phone up if laid down because the back is completely flat. that seems like a strange complaint but it is pretty annoying.
>>513586 hitler was inspired by spanish and american concentration camps he just did what we did to native americans but made them more high tech it's completely reasonable to compare hitler's camps to the camps americans put the indigenous people in
>>513589 the dude that designed the robots wanted them to develop consciousness from the beginning so he did it on purpose i think
>>513592 Were medical experiments performed on them?
FormerRei@mobile
>>513592 That's the design team's fault for letting one person have that much control over the design. Making a machine that you can't turn off is dangerous?
>>513597 yeah, pretty extensively and maybe worse in some cases because it was like 200 years prior to the nazis who had more up to date medical and surgical knowledge there were many people that were operated on hundreds of times for absolutely no reason, having organs removed to see if they could survive without them, or trying to see if sewing an arm back on would make it usable again eyes gouged out for fun extensive forced sterilization for many that didn't end up tortured to death
FormerRei@mobile
Oh yeah the last surviving operation paperclip rocket engineer died
Kirara 🚗
i only wish he could have been subjected to the pain of his victims before he died
FormerRei@mobile
Not every operation paperclip scientist/engineer did hhuman experimentation or had direct involvement in the development of weapons
>>513618 people that were in the nazi party but didn't believe in nazi ideology weren't nazis in my view but if they helped nazis get into power then they belong in the pile
>>513617 death is the way of the world we have to fight to survive and sometimes that means killing people shouldn't kill anyone that isn't trying to kill them, but unfortunately, lots of people aren't reasonable, so we have to protect ourselves i refuse to sit by and get killed pacifism is a fool's game
Anno
I wonder how the world would be if there were nanomachines in te air that prevented people from being seriously injured.
FormerRei@mobile
We'd have more idiots but also less tragic accidents
the world needs more idiots and fewer smart assholes
Anno
I am kinda interested in the world in equilibrium where everyone takes drugs to remove emotions and apparently lives in harmony I wonder if humans in a very long scale of time will remove undesirable emotions and become more efficient and machine like in like billions of years
>>513627 Emotions are essential for survival and we would not have persisted to the point we have without them.
FormerRei@mobile
Also I got personal information leaked again. Just my phone number and email. Hopefully there'll be a class action against ticketmaster.
Anno
>>513629 Yeah but our enviroment has changed massively. and as it changes I wonder if being unemotional increases survivable and efficient and becomes preferred over the course of millions of years or what not. Not that evolution tends towards more efficient and machine like in the first place anyway,
>>513631 our environment has changed massively and we're going to die before we ever have a chance to adapt to it if anything, though, we would most likely just come to be more comfortable with what we presentl*y c motherfucking cat won't stop hitting my keyboard
what we presently consider to be depression
Anno
>>513630 I got my email leaked to a bunch of job seekers recently because the author didn't blind carbon copy >>513634 I wasn't makng this a competiition I just remembered that becaus eyou brought it up
FormerRei@mobile
>>513633 I got my email leaked to an evever increasing number of spammers, hackers and personal identity thieves anf other fraudsters because ticket master and two other places I had accounts at hhad poor security
Evolution is curious to me. like a single cell colony can survive well but we evolved continually for increased complexity increased complexity doesn't seem very desirable after a certain point.
why not? i'd say that being a human is pretty desirable compared to the other options or it would be in a more fitting environment but any animal will experience intense stress in an environment they aren't suited for
Anno
I just feel like complexity increases the rate of failure. rather than something short lived and rapidly propagating. and simple.
>>513638 More complexity also reduces risk of runaway mutations and increases adaptability to outside factors like environment and so on Basically, while it might seem complex beings are more likely to fail, very basic beings actually barely avoid extinction due to being able to constantly rapidly expand their numbers So is it really success and desirable state of being, a precarious net growth, that any slight changing of evinronment or such, can throw out of balance and then result in the extinction of said being?
>>513630 hoping a lot of undue companies get shut tf down for not being competent disgusting how companies can just start up and do whatever without proper regulation of security
Anno
My basic maths is failing me. or I need to think about this more. If you have 9 boxes in a square arrangement oh I think I figured it out
月
>>513641 it also increases unknown unknowns and frailty to the small, pervasive things stuff that can't even interact with a microbe can obliterate us
>>513645 Which has resulted in an immunity system that can deal with it or the complex beings pretty much assimilating some of those small things as parts of themselves
Kirara 🚗
why can't my immune system protect me from bullets, /moe/
Maria
What if our bodies had nanomachines that repaired bullet wounds
It must be pretty crazy to get shot like three times and not die immediately, especially when one of the bullets is lodged in your brain. Like, oh shit, I got shot in the fucking head, what do I do
FormerRei@mobile
>>513657 Also I'm gon na throw you a [citation needed] on that >he wanted to kill all the Palestinians
月
>>513647 innate immune system can't even deal with itself idk what you're talkin about
>>513662 I'm extrapolating. He wanted to sell weapons and jets and bombs to the Israelis so they could slaughter Palestinians. To me, that's the same as wanting to kill them himself.
FormerRei@mobile
>>513664 >so they could slaughter Palestinians You know the IDF needs weapons to protect Israel from its neighbors right?
FormerRei@mobile
Israel was literally in the middle of a war with Egypt, Jordan and the PLO. So its not out of character for US politicians to support an allied nation.
And they were simultaneously slaughtering Palestinians. All of those wars were because Israel was illegitimately holding land that didn't belong to them and slaughtering the people that lived there prior. It's completely reasonable for a Palestinian to be upset about that.
月
i made some ghetto ass prison spread chili cheese mac with three packets of ramen and a can of hormel chili and sour cream tl note the cream wasn't originally sour
FormerRei@mobile
>>513667 Depending on who you ask aall oof the Israeli land is being held illegitimately.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>513667 curiously, where would you have placed them?
>>513673 They should have stayed where they were or moved somewhere else instead of moving onto stolen land.
>>513672 Yes, the US and Canada are both illegitimate settler states, too. The people who lived in Palestine had ancestral roots there. And the Jews that moved into Palestine had no ancestral roots there.
>>513671 are there zionist christians? it's probably a dumb question i remember that, while my grandmother was strictly southern baptist and influenced my grandfather, my grandfather preferred some church named Zion it might just be a name though i dont really know what that stuff was about
>>513674 And who owns the land? Ottomans Kingdom of Israel? The Caliphate of olden times PErsia? Babylonia? the British Empire? Macedonia? Rome? Greece? Egypt? The Mamelukian Caliphate?
FormerRei@mobile
>>513674 >The Jews that moved to Palestine had no ancestral roots there Where do you think Jews come from What is tthe name of the ancient kingdom ruled and populated by Jews that most living Jews can trace ancestry back to called again?
>>513680 Well since the nation that governs it doesn't own it or the people who live there don't own it then all that is left, is "those who have the power to claim it, can keep it"
>>513682 Saying that someone has the right to live somewhere doesn't mean that that person owns where they live. I don't believe in land ownership. People can own homes that exist on land.
>>513681 Zionism is just Jewish nationalism that says Jews own Palestine and should all move there and take it over.
>>513677 Most living Jews can't trace their ancestry back 6000 years, actually. Or even 3000 years. Or even 2000 years. Or even 1000 years.
FormerRei@mobile
>>513683 >I don't believe in land ownership You sound like sk
>>513683 It was a solid answer to the anti-semitism facing jews everywhere to have a jewish nation for jews and as the opprotunity presented itself post ww1 as Ottoman Empire was split into edible pieces, they presented the plan to the entente nations, and they okay'd it
Maria
>>513683 >people can own homes that exist on land >I don't believe in land ownership How do you own a home that /// own a home without owning the land that's on it
>>513684 Wow, anarchists have similar beliefs? Color me crazy.
>>513685 It wasn't a very good answer to the antisemitism, though. The entire thing was just a settler/colonizer scam.
>>513686 I don't understand the confusion here. You just do. How do you own a pillow in a hotel? If you put a pillow inside of a hotel, does the hotel own your pillow? No, you have property within a space that you don't own.
月
>>513688 did jews stop having ancestors 6000 years ago
>>513689 and then ww2 happened... and things got accelerated way too quickly Good part of the fault lies in how the British empire handled the decolonisation process
>>513694 Houses are moved with moderate frequency. And many cultures historically have had homes that were quite easy to move.
FormerRei@mobile
Well it doesn't actually matter if Israel is recognized as legitimate by you or not. It has existed, exists and will continue to exist for quite a while. It's legitimate enough
Anno
You own a house on land that doesn't belong to you unless you buy the land, most people live like that. in fact increasingly you don't even own the home.
Ownership is a right enforced by the state, where legal documents and such exist to proove that one owns thing or not, in the case of a dispute without some party enforcing said rules, anyone can just come and say "nice hose you have, colonel, would be shame if I decided to took it" and in that casea ll you can do is defend your house and either succeed or fail and when you fail, if you no longer can enter the house, no longer have keys to the house and no longer be able to affect it in anyway, can you say "I have a house" or if you say "I have a right to live in this house" how can you prove said right or enforce your rightful "ownership" of the house, without force or a backing force?
Rights, ownership, are all moot without something to enforce them
Maria
>>513697 Yeah but in that case someone else owns the land The point being that somewhere in this chain someone owns the land that the house is on
Anno
>>513699 land ownership shouldn't really be for individuals it should be owned by more than one person. A community
Kirara 🚗
>>513699 if nobody owned the land, people would still have those houses on that land
>>513704 That's dodging the question I just asked You stated that if no one owned the land, then people would still have houses on the land What I'm asking is how people decide whose houses go where Is it done communally?
>>513708 So if it's all made up then I can just take your land since you don't have a right to it since no one has a right to it
Kirara 🚗
>>513703 what gives one person the right to claim they own a piece of land
Anno
I don't think any individual should own land it should be collective. I don't really like the idea the humans have split themselves up in different countries but thats a simplification. humans are humans and land is land. you should be able to be a citizen of the world.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>513704 nothing or in terms of modern society, the laws and systems set in place to deal with such cases, do that disputes and conflicts can be dealt with as peacefully and rightfully as possible
>>513703 I answered your question with a question to highlight the fact that the answer is nothing to both. That stuff is all made up. Nothing gives anyone the right to own land or to build a house wherever. That's all made up.
Rights don't exist even the "basic human rights" are moot without some party enforcing them
FormerRei@mobile
>>513708 Oh wow great point I guess western civilization will just up and evaporate. You sure showed them
Anno
Kirara is only saying the basis on which land ownership is made isn't formed fairly. the right to own land is originates on empty claims that are passed down and traded with money.
but that can //and that extends to the claims for all that was on that land, the value of goods, value of livestock
Believe me, I pray for Western civilization to evaporate every day.
>>513703 Technically, of course you can. Western civilization is built upon the idea that might makes right and that whoever kills a place's inhabitants gets to own that place. But I don't personally like that, and I don't accept it, and that way of living isn't sustainable. And we're all going to die because of that.
>>513714 Israel is a nation founded by westerners based on western ideals.
>>513715 That's wrong. There are many societies that don't behave like that.
But there's no point in me arguing that. I've given countless examples on /moe/ many times and every time, they're just ignored. I learned a while back that this is a game I can't win because I'm the only one playing.
>>513716 There is lot of jungle in africa and amazon unclaimed by anyone go move there if you want to exist outside of the fruits of 10 000 odd years of civilization
Anno
I think land ownerships is a dumb idea, people will never escape the idea of nations as long as they believe in land ownership
Maria
>>513711 If Kirara wants to advocate in favour of a tribal society without land ownership I can understand that That's fine But what I'm asking about is the statement about houses specifically, since a house requires the usage of a certain amount of land, the space that it takes up If you own a house then you can decide who is and isn't allowed in the house, who is and isn't allowed to use the house Which means you are able to deny others access to that bit of land
>>513721 Yes, you have a zone of ownership covering a limited area You can say that it is a bad idea, yes, I can see how you can argue that But that doesn't contradict my original confusion which was how we own houses without also owning the land Technically the land itself doesn't have to be owned, but the fact that you own the house means that others are excluded from using the space that the house occupies I'm going to assume that Kiraras use of the term "own" implies that others can be excluded form it and that the term "home" refers to a physical item like a house
>>513733 That's a good point about how complicated the isue of "own" is Although you could argue that it just means that the governmentowns it So for now I'm just going to assume that the term ownership means that the owner dictates who is and isn't allowed to use the home, and that the home may be owned by many parties such as the person who lives in it, and also the state. Although when Kirara was talking about people who owned homes without owning the land they might have been specifically talking about stateless societies Actually it makes a lot more sense to me if I'm assuming Kirara is talking about societies without states and that the homes are more mobile than what we have now
>>513733 I guess lying on the ground doesn't really refer to ownership If the term home doesn't refer to houses that stay in one space then what Kirara was saying makes a lot more sense
Anno
>>513720 The lack of land ownership isn't specific to tribal societies. if you own a house, you extend a zone of ownership the covers a limited area and that ownerships creates an area of exclusion, in greater terms you have nations.
Fundamentally I find the separation of human beings into separate zones of control a bad idea.
>>513719 Land ownership is the basic foundation of a society, though once you can own land, you can own a house on said land and dominate said land so, that if say during carting your goods to a local market and coming back, you can then evict anyone laying claim to your lands, that you have worked hard to build and cultivate or your house that you have built on the sweat off of your back
>>513722 >Land ownership is the basic foundation of a society, I'm not switching sides but thats completely false unless you arbitrarily sset that as a requirement and not count cultutes like the native americans or the Australian aboriginies as societies
>>513728 Well yes I give that to you BUt i rather prefer complex socities with complex structures that produce complex actual structures like this appartment block I live in
Could we reach this level on completely different set of principles and foundation blocks? Who knows unproven and maybe will be proven eventually BUt I wouldn't erase all of human achievement incremented over time, just because some people don't like to live in the society we have wound up with >>513731 what?
FormerRei@mobile
>>513730 The mound builder civilization had metropolitan areas
i just don't think it's a good idea to live in a way that isn't sustainable what's the point of all the "progress" we've made if it means that we're just going to destroy ourselves with it
Anno
>>513720 I think it depends on what you mean by own. Ownerships covers more than // ownership can mean less or more depending on what rights you extend to that ownership.
In certain countries you can build only to certain restrictions even if you own the land, I don't know if that technically means you own the land. If your residence is non-permanant, and moves like nomadic groups can you call that ownership even though you have built a home on it. if you don't even build anything and just lie on the ground do you by occuping the ground extend some sort of ownership of that space.
>>513732 I think a perfect world would be a worldw here everyone can live as they want to if some want to go to some frontier area where they can found their own society, with some fruits they can take off of the current society with them, why not? Hard to do right now, as you'd need to completely change the mindset of the entire world, as most of world's land and resources have been claimed on some level or not
Maybe Antarctica could become a frontier like that or Siperia or Uninhabited regions of Canada
There should be "No Man's Land" left where people can just go and live outside the boundaries, rules, regulations and such of the outside world and maybe even found new nations there, but with the risk of welp having made that said NML smaller
Space travel would be so perfect for this, as such settler societies could then freely form there.
>>513734 i agree wholeheartedly if people want to live unsustainably in their big cities with all their lights, i don't have anything against that i'm not even against the world ending, honestly
i just want to be able to live comfortably as i please while i wait for all of that i wouldn't have any complaints about this society if i didn't have to live in it and it left me alone
>>513725 Oh I see. Well I disagree with your answer. I think you're kind of naive when it comes to this stuff.
Might makes right isn't an aspect of western civilzation. Might makes right is a truth that's written into nature itself. Zebras don't displace lions. Lions get to sit under the shady trees because they're stronger.
>>513736 that's a complete denial of science and nature animals survive by working together, not by dominating each other zebras and lions live in a very specific system in which neither is dominating the other despite the fact that a zebra may be eaten by a lion
Anno
I >>513733 will extend my last sentence too, I don't think you can just say presence = ownership even though by physically being somewhere you are denying someone being in the exact place. I would have to think pretty hard to think of a decent way to describe ownership in terms, but I think it suffice to say you can live and survive on the earth without ownership of a piece of land you // the presence of buildings aren't even permanant, // actually I need to think on this line of thought
>>513739 Human tribes do elect or end up with a leader(s) always, who are in some way exceptional, not always strongest but they still don't Opress actively the people they might limit the tribe members in some way, like pack way of "only I get females" or "I get first pick on females" or "I tell, you do" but in the end, the basic mentality of group strenght and strenght through unity and co-operation lives in ALL human communities
grats on depriving notso of the opportunity he was deserved
Maria
>>513740 > I think it suffice to say you can live and survive on the earth without ownership of a piece of land I'm not saying that people can't live without owning land, people have been doing that for years Only that the ownership of a physical shelter implies some sort of ownership of the space it's on since others can be excluded from that space I feel like I'm going in a circle though
>>513759 But even then that can still lead to the implied ownership through exclusion since we're all still occupying space Although that's becoming pretty far fetched But like let's say everyone wants to live on one specific rock because it's a really nice rock, no physical structures Someones continued presence there is denying someone else that space Although this /// You could have people take turns on the rock but then that's just both of them owning that bit of rock at seperate times Although if there's a sufficient amount of space and resources then while the concept of ownership through exclusion could technically still exist, it wouldn't matter since people can't/won't take so much as to necessitate the need to "own" it if that makes sense Which might be closer to what Kirara meant Technically the homes would imply ownership through exclusion but since the usage of the land is far below the amount of land available they don't actually have to think about ownership
>>513762 Sure you can't do as you please, but I don't think ownership is absolute. I think there are degrees of ownership
Not So Anonymous !xa1FThiSUY
>>513751 They're too preoccupied with proving everyone else wrong to blow shit up. Except themselves, maybe.
>>513756 My theory is that any flat earther wwho tries tto learn how to build a bomb will llearn enough to stop believing in flat earth
Anno
>>513755 I know, I meant more like you can stay in a place and live in it without actually owning the land, like if you don't even build any structures and just stay on it.
Anno
>>513755 Yeah, I think it is the most deductive way I think of ownership, is either through building a structure and time. if you // however I guess even if you stay somewhere you are still excluding someone from one specific space. humans seem intrinsically own space around them. *even if you stand
>>513755 Thats why I was thinking ownership includes the aspect of time. Which obviously gives value given time is limited for humans, so I can see how land can have value to humans you live in // who live a certain length of time. they want to occupy a space within a particular time.
Yeah I can understand that, but if we extend that we occupy space and thus prevent others from occupying it just by being there, then we can also go back to the idea of ownership in a society. I am on land, and occupying the space therefore excluding others from utilising it but I don't "own" it. I cannot do as I please because of the laws of the society Even though my presence denies others the use of it, others can own it without presence.
Or even no person owns it, it belongs to an immaterial thing that owns the land without physically using up the land. Well what I mean is that just being somewhere is or excluding others from physical presence there is enough to own land.
somehow an entity can own land without physically taking up that space. its ownership isn't implied by its presense but by something else. It seems naturally to think of land ownership in terms of utilisation - physical exlusion of others do to physical utilisation of space or rather than natural. easy.
but that you can own land without doing anything with it is interesting
>>513762 my grammar is all over the place in that. my bad, it actually changes the meaning of some sentences. *phyiscal presence isn't enough to own land
Maria
>>513762 Yeah being able to own land without doing anything with it is an interesting point because it also goes back to the point that a lot of ownership concepts are made up and
Maria
>>513765 still ownership via the power to exclude since you're just wielding the power from outside that piece of land It's a bit fucked up to deny others usage of something that you're not even using but there you go
Anno
It is interesting because It seems natural to be able to walk on the earth as a please in areas that are no being utilised for purpose or being physically used up but I cannot because the system of society requires zones of control and exclusion to work, they require that their be borders between nations, in order to function effectively.
there is also value given to land outside of // in different sense of ownership, that land can have value outside of variable of time and desire to occupy but that the land has something inherent to it like it is a sacred land and there for no one should transpass on it. it doesn't get utilised for purpose or occupation it is just a zone of exclusion without "ownership" I guess you could call it collection ownership since that zone of exlusion exist because some group who believes that it is sacred but //
Ownership also seem to be specifically concerned with the physical resources given that land is finite. but we don't extend ownership to all things on that land. we don't own the air in the sky over the land, we don't own the insects, microbes, sunlight etc. we only extend ownership over things useful to us that aren't // that are finite
>>513767 governments do own sky over the land generally and people own some of the sky over their land technically insects on one person's land would be thought of as someone's property in many cases too
>>513769 They own the zone above, and below around the physical space but I don't think I've ever heard of governments owning the air in that physial space, it isn't finite it, doesn't // it constantly filles the space. and insects can move from state to state from different areas of control but I am not sure specifically about their ownership.
I just think it is curious, I guess in the case of air, it is finite in the sense you can infinitely use of one space of air, air has to come in from outside the area of your control *can't infinitely
Anno
I wonder if there are any philosophical arguments or treatises about land ownership. especially considering we must occupy some physical space to exist.
Anno
oh there's definitely hundreds there's too much philosophy
I'm boiling water and there's a glob of oil that is on the bottom instead of floating with the rest
Anno
Walked like half of the way home today instead of taking the subway the whole way. I get to cross the bridge that runs the highest, widest part of the valley along the way. Even in the evening dusk the view ia really quite nice.
i will buy someone D4 if they want to stream it i am unable to play games anymore but like to watch them and i would like to watch someone playing D4 anyone interested??
Anno
I'm still not actually home, sorry. I want to try and do some drawing when I get home too.
>>513842 I hate those things Long sleeve shirts just feel restrictive to me
Anno
>>513841 I usually buy from op shops that or a certain pair of skinny jeans whose name escapes me >>513846 uhhh as long as they're at an op shop and they look and fit good I buy them
Maria
>>513843 I feel the opposite Having a jumper on makes me feel more secure
FormerRei@mobile
>>513844 I meant like Levis, Lee, Wrangler, generic ...
FormerRei@mobile
Maria, what about you? Levi's, Lee, Wrangler or some other brand? Or do you not care?
Maria
Lemme check I'm not actually sure what brand I'm wearing Although I guess the fact I don't know means I come under I don't care
watching people play dark souls remasstered is making me want to buy it but I wanna wait for the switch version >>513847 I usually buy wrangler jeans They're the most comfortable to me
I ended up sticking with levis because I determined empirically that my levis lasted the longest. I have a bunch of levis i grew out of that I need to get rid of. I haven't gotten rid of old clothes in quite a while.
i have to go to a work apparel store to get them though because i don't like to buy clothes online and most stores don't carry dickies for skeletons but they've always lasted me a few years of daily use
FormerRei@mobile
>>513853 >>>/watch?v=CW2dSB-a0D4 Whenever I think of gap i think of this commercial. Which incidentally never aired. They used a different cut and lame music for the version they chose to air.
Boring, about to go to bed Opened a bunch of old packs of fries into containers all day Expiry date of most of it was a year ago, getting used to make booze now
Members Tobacco The Seven Fields of Aphelion Iffernaut Ryan Graveface Pony Diver Steve SLV
holy shit
Kirara 🚗
Past members Father Hummingbird Power Pill Fist
these names are so cool
Anno
anyone have link to /tea/ ?
Kirara 🚗
>A Graveface insert included inside the album Dandelion Gum describes them as such: "Deep in the woods of western Pennsylvania vocoders hum amongst the flowers and synths bubble under the leaf-strewn ground while flutes whistle in the wind and beats bounce to the soft drizzle of a warm acid rain. As the sun peeks out from between the clouds, the organic aural concoction of Black Moth Super Rainbow starts to glisten above the trees."
There's a wasp in the window behind my computer and desk that's struggling for life. I want to end it but reaching it is kind of difficult So I'm going to spray some spray before I leave
An edit of This Is America with the OP of one of the bakemonogatari seasons
Kirara 🚗
>>>/@jules_su/1004475500721401856?s=19 this is weird but everyone is making such a big deal out of it idgi i put my water on the floor if it's taking up too much room on the table
All tobacco products being a uniform dark green now is an issue because BOTH of the types of tobacco I buy I've just used the color on the packet to indicate which one I want
>>514131 Oh shit this reminds me Have you encountered the guy who ends every tweet with "Vote SPP" or something?
EVERY SINGLE ONE, DUDE He'll reply to something unrelated, and it ends with that
Kirara 🚗
nope
Anno
takes me back to the days of forum signatures
Kirara 🚗
haha same
__________________________________ dicks are for CHICKS Gays go to PRISON repost this if you aren't afraid of making america manly again
Anno
I wonder what the go to forum software is these days
Anno
don't think anything is, really forums are pretty dead and not many new ones are popping up
FormerRei@mobile
Phpbb >>514138 They're still around But they aare dying
Kirara 🚗
good riddance forums too bad Facebook killed them though
Anno
I think moo is my favourite forum
Anno
on this textboard I browse there's this one poster recently who post inane pol shit it's the stupidest stuff ever and either people fall for it or they sockpuppet until someone does
>>514146 they're playing the long game if they're bored enough to annoy people on textboard >>514145 looks like an interesting anime from what you're posted
Anno
>>514148 there's all kinds of people I know a guy who goes around developer IRC channels and pretend he has a problem and plays dumb long enough until they start recognizing him (again) been doing this for months and the channels are usually not very big
>messaged at 10:00 (time of meeting start) >talk in 5? come on i'm literally not being productive while i'm in my own house because you didn't want to meet on campus if i was going to waste time at home i'd play a video game or watch cartoon
I was just reading about the six stages of moral reasoning on wikipedia and I was like "This sounds interesting, I wanna read this guy's stuff" BUT IT'S LIKE PSYCHOLOGICAL LIT?
Anno
It's very flattering.
Anno
Was there a Sand King in this game or did the "three sanded sandal" come from somewhere else.
月
nope luna, riki, void, kunkka, and witch doctor still trying to figure out the sandals thing
most theories in psychology are proposed by westerners and are completely western and many indigenous societies just existing disproves many of them
sk
OH YEAH They actually codify moral specifics rather than attitudes, so their meaning ends up usually being "we are more morally advanced as a society than that one"
Kirara 🚗
yeah, basically
anyway, if you want to read about it, you can pick up his book or something i don't really know a good succinct resource for it
What's it called? Wiki's not giving me anything but studies
Are psych studies just theory
Kirara 🚗
Essays on Moral Development, Vol. I: The Philosophy of Moral Development and Moral stages : a current formulation and a response to critics
Kirara 🚗
one of the things about the theory is that most people don't progress through all of the stages so to someone like me that's // that would be considered in the post-conventional stage, i can say, yes, this is good, i am clearly in this stage and others are not but if progressing to the last stages is truly rare, then is it fair to class it as the final stage? is it really development if people don't generally "fully develop" according to the thoery?
Honestly I think the last stage is seen as 'extremely rare' as a result of it being, like the wiki at least says, possible to mistake for the first stages, because up until that point, violating the rules being bad in itself has been a sort of underpinning
Kirara 🚗
in my own observations, the post-conventional stage seems to be exceedingly rare most people seem to end around stage 4 and stay there for the rest of their lives many people get close to stage 5 but remain in stage 4
it it's truly developmental, then people should continue to develop until they reach the final stage, but people don't seem to do that they tend to stop at stage 4
i think there are developmental components to this stuff but i don't think it's purely developmental i don't think you can reach stage 5 and 6 without sufficient brain development and certain experiences that show you your current view of morality isn't quite right
Sure it can, why not? If you violently suppress anyone who actually goes through with it and constantly reinforce the idea that staying at a lower level is good, people won't want to continue that development It's not like it's part of your brain physically becoming done
Kirara 🚗
can you think of other developmental milestones that can be suppressed in that fashion? outside of fringe cases
Well I'm not sure what exactly counts as 'development' in a psychological context
Kirara 🚗
development is generally associated with things like developmental milestones e.g. a child makes eye contact at a certain age, starts to respond to mother's face, starts to crawl at a certain age, etc
That's like, ability to understand and interact with the world though, not a moral thing
Kirara 🚗
which is why i don't think kohlberg's theory of moral development is actually developmental i don't think calling it developmental is accurate the word development has connotations that his theory doesn't meat
Not in terms of what exactly developmental means in psychology, if it's categorically not that But I think a case can be made that it's certainly a development we go through as people, and the latter stages are necessarily after the previous ones. Like you don't go backwards on this, and you don't skip steps It's definitely a mental development, but not in terms of ability to interact with the world
Kirara 🚗
meet*
Kirara 🚗
the stages are supposed to correspond to the development of reasoning ability, but i don't think that's exactly fair to say we know that brain development stops around 21-25 and yet there are more developmental milestones after the brain is fully developed? i just don't think development is a good way to discuss it although that's how it's viewed in academia so i do discuss it like that when necessary
>>514204 I mean do consider that maybe excluding it from using the word 'development' would probably do more harm than good overall Even if it's not the same, it is a form of development that is psychological
Kirara 🚗
well, semantics aside, i think it's a good theory, and it has a lot of empirical support
What exactly is it used for anyway? I'm not sure how you could prove it correctly empirically either, honestly. I mean the underlying assumption is that stage six really IS the moral absolute, and that's not like, testable.
Kirara 🚗
there's no assumption that stage 6 is a moral absolute just that viewing morality in that way tends to be associated with the full development of reasoning
Like it predicts or causes a better ability to reason overall to go up in these stages?
Kirara 🚗
just that different types of moral reasoning are associated with the development of reasoning skills for example, people with /// people that haven't developed past concrete reasoning skills can't progress past certain stages the post-conventional stage requires developments in someone's abstract thinking ability to reach those stages, and being able to use more abstract reasoning is associated with that stage
How do you measure abstract reasoning skill at the level the two last stages would predict?
sk
Like I'm not surprised the first 4 can be measured, if you actually can measure abstract reasoning
Kirara 🚗
there are a lot of psychological tests that measure abstractness vs concreteness even some personality tests like the 16pf have rudimentary measures of it it's a common and easy to evaluate kind of thing
Roughly how would a question in that measurement go? Or task
Kirara 🚗
in some tests of abstract reasoning, you have to identify rules within a system and solve puzzles in them without any direction as to the rules for example even something as simple as a rorschach test can hint at abstract reasoning abilities; people who are more abstract have greater ease identifying images than those who are more concrete
Anno
>>514193 >surpriiseee >eh, nani? also is that jeff goldbloom? who is he supposed to be playing?
Not really, no I can vaguely understand what it refers to but not really
Kirara 🚗
so concrete thinking is thinking that's based on material things, basically the relationship between a driver stopping and a stop sign would be "you stop at a stop sign" in a concrete sense
a more abstract way of thinking of that relationship would involve an examination of what a stop sign means, what does it mean to stop, how is a stop sign interpreted, does a stop sign actually mean stop, etc
concrete thinking is if someone says "that guy is a walking dictionary!" and it's taken literally whereas abstract thinking is taking it metaphorically abstract is about extrapolating underlying immaterial concepts from the physical world whereas concrete thinking is a more literal interpretation of the world
an easy way to understand it is - or a way i find easy to understand it - is that i have trouble providing autistic people with therapy because autism is associated with very concrete thinking and i'm very predisposed to abstract thinking, so there's a disconnect in how we view the world and communicate so for me, i may associate the feeling of sadness with colors, sounds, smells, emotions, etc but an autistic person, when asked what sadness is, they would associate sadness with "something bad happens" or something like that
of course, not every autistic person is as concrete as that example, though
Anno
>>514219 Yeah that's Jeff. He plays a master of a fighting arena kind of character, I believe. Still have yet to watch Ragnarok myself though.
Anno
I have seen little amounts of Marvel movies I am probably not going to start any time soon
Anno
Some of them are pretty unique and definitely high-quality movies. Like in general they're all pretty enjoyable but some of them are one step above. Thor: Ragnarok is one of those one step above movies, from what I gather, and the concept of it has sold me pretty well on it too.
Anno
although I might give Strange a try so I guess I roke that pretty fast
Anno
Doctor Strange was a lot of fun to watch, and has some legitimately great cinematograhy in it as well. And Cucumberpatch is one of those actors where the MCU casting department fucking 11/10 nailed the casting on.
>>514223 Huh? That doesn't seem to be what you meant with those last two Like I'm sure they're indicators, but this seems like a very different thing from analyzing what the stop sign really is signaling, how it's interpreted, and the rest of it
>>514230 For America. I'll cross my fingers on it in the States. Er, on it in Canada. There's probably alternative availability options for it out there anyway, if I'm really driven to watch it.
Kirara 🚗
can you use an american's netflix account to see it?
Like those are metaphors for the thing, but is that really the same as the stop sign examples? example*
Anno
>>514232 Netflix is region-locked. I could technically watch it through anyone's Netflix account, as long Netflix thinks I'm located currently in the States through my IP address. I could VPN it, but honestly, at that point it's less effort to just get it through other means.
I thought of an example that might be more succinct.
So Eva is DEEP, right? A concrete interpretation of Eva would be about the robots fighting aliens. A more abstract interpretation of Eva would be about themes, metaphors, how things represent this or that, and what the show actually means
Anno
Though with stuff like the Marvel movies they're still probably gonna show up on Netflix up here too until Disney debuts the rebranded Hulu and they all get taken off.
>>514236 Hah hah hah. I'm fine finding another means of watching it if I can't get it on Netflix. I've already seen The Last Jedi and Infinity War within the last year, I don't feel like Disney needs more of my money.
月
>>514236 i think it could be done privately, but any public stream probably auto-identifies the content and stops it
>>514236 Hm, I guess I can see it, but then seemingly you'd be able to have both low and high abstract thinking Like if you have a hard time communicating concretely with some patients, that doesn't mean you're unable to see things concretely generally? Or maybe concrete and abstract reasoning are somewhat separable
I lost my train of thought, sorry
Kirara 🚗
>Thor: Ragnarok is Marvel’s big fall movie of 2017 pitting Thor up against the Hulk in the biggest Thor movie to date. Better yet, thanks to the Disney deal struck back in 2014 and enacted in 2016, Netflix will be getting the movie added to Netflix in June 2018 in the United States and Canada.
Anno
>>514238 Yeah, that's also true. I figured Kirara was probably insinuating a private stream though.
>>514240 Ah that works. Still, with Netflix I have to go out to the living room to watch stuff on the television. Maybe when it gets warmer again that won't be an issue. But there's a reason I still haven't gotten around to watching Stranger Things season two.
>>514239 You can think concretely while having the capacity for high abstract thinking.
I'm capable of thinking concretely, but it's difficult for me because I'm predisposed toward abstract methods of thinking. Rather than being about capacity to think in a certain way, that's a personality trait.
Learning about this is real big for me, I didn't know about this and now I do
Anno
>>514242 It's not my account, and I think we've got the most basic pricing option that only lets one device run Netflix cocurrently. Not that it's a big deal when I'm home alone but it could get annoying. And I'd have to get the information for the account to get it set up on my computer and at this point, it starts to be a nuisance. I enjoy watching some of the content it has to offer but I don't care that much.
>>514243 You can think of it like, concrete is more superficial, while abstract is deeper. Almost everyone can think concretely, but abstract reasoning is more on a spectrum in terms of how developed someone's abstract reasoning is.
月
being able to think both concretely and abstractly is very complementary e.g. thinking abstractly about problems and developing strategies about how to approach it, and thinking concretely to identify certain obstacles and implement tactics bottom up and top down, kind of
>>514245 Well if you require to go through the stages in order, and all the first ones are extremely concrete, then it should kinda follow that you don't develop abstract thoughts too far before you reach higher ones, right? If the two are linked, which I at least took to be what you said earlier
I think you can have strong abstract reasoning abilities and be in a lower stage of moral development, but you can't be in a higher stage of moral development and have weak abstract reasoning abilities.
Also you can't really test for whether you can skip a stage or not Like it's not like you gotta stay on one stage for any specific amount of time
Anno
>>514247 Everyone develops abstract thoughts, bar irregularities. Language is an abstraction already, and we all pretty much engage in it from a young age. Complex spoken/written language, I mean.
In stage 1, moral reasoning is based on pleasure vs pain. Moral decisions are based on whether an action directly produces pain or pleasure. There is a lot /// low level of abstraction here, can you see why I say that?
FormerRei@mobile
>>514248 Okay But what if you have a stroke and are left with your moral reasoning intact but your abstract reasoning abilities otherwise disappear
Kirara 🚗
>>514253 Can you give an example of a case like this?
FormerRei@mobile
>>514254 Not off the top off my head But it sounds plausible
>>514253 I believe the point of the stages is that this can't really happen The stages are like, more abstract the higher you go, if you can't think abstractly you can't think in the way required for the higher stages
>>514255 Without an example case, what you said makes me think of cases like Phineas Gage, who obviously had a railway spike go through his head rather than having a stroke, but he made different types of decisions afterwards, even though he didn't appear to have impaired abstract reasoning (although it wasn't measured to be fair). In cases like that, I would argue that damage to the brain is interfering with impulse control. It's kind of the opposite of what you said actually, now that I think about it. This isn't actually applicable, I mixed up what you said. Yeah, I'm not sure of any cases like what you said.
>>514260 >Associative visual agnosia Patients can describe visual scenes and classes of objects but still fail to recognize them. They may, for example, know that a fork is something you eat with but may mistake it for a spoon. Scary isn't it
FormerRei@mobile
>>514260 >Astereognosis Also known as somatosensory agnosia, it is connected to tactile sense—that is, touch. Patient finds it difficult to recognize objects by touch based on its texture, size and weight. However, they may be able to describe it verbally or recognize same kind of objects from pictures or draw pictures of them.
Well researchers do measure them in some way right? That has to be diagnostic for it to be valid as empirical evidence for the theory's validity, no? Like you have to be able to conclusively determine which stage, exactly, someone is at To know whether you even progress, I mean
Kohlberg made categorizations based on qualitative data in people's responses to moral dilemmas. If you go read his research or books, you can probably find out how he made those categorizations and look to see what traits you exhibit, if you're that interested in it.
>>514268 Kohlberg froze himself to death purposefully after a decade of dealing with pain and complications from a treatment that helped him with a parasitic infection he developed, while simultaneously working so hard that he got burnt out.
Why? So we can say, oh, we're ANARCHISTS, and this guy says that makes us MORE DEVELOPED THAN YOU ? I don't think there's anything practical Kohlberg adds to anarchist literature
Unless someone comes up with ways to improve moral development, there's nothing practical to it
>>514274 I think the kind of people that want to use science to say their group is better than other groups are the kinds of people that anarchists are supposed to stand against
I think it has practical use though >>514276 It's not to say our group is better, though
It's something I think if people actually get interested in, they'll progress through the stages, and end up more radicalized It's not an argument to convince them, it's a thing they might be interested in, I don't care if they believe it'll make them anarchists or not, that's irrelevant
>>514278 I don't think anyone claiming their group is more developed than other groups will ever be right. Sometimes there are differences between groups which give them different strengths or weaknesses, and that's one thing, but saying one group is better than another is almost always wrong, and people trying to prove it with science are usually misusing science.
>>514277 If someone is in stage 4 and believe that the law is what's right, do you think they're going to read Kohlberg and say, oh, i'm not fully developed, i should work on that.
Anno
>>514277 People aren't better because they have a higher stage of moral development. They aren't obligated to progress because they now know of this theory. >>514281 Again, people are NOT better becaues they have a higher stage of moral development. The fact that they want to be better is not applicable here because people are NOT BETTER because they have a higher stage of moral development.
>>514281 They will probably not agree that higher stages are better and even if they do, how are they supposed to try to improve their moral development?
>>514286 By becoming more conscious of how they reason about moral issues, I guess A lot of reasoning is kinda background stuff and not examined closely, but if you can see a higher stage is a better approach, you can make an effort to consider moral questions in a deeper way more often
>>514291 That was pretty good That bear walking around was super weird at first very good animation
>>514292 I think it would be good if people had a deeper understanding of the way they make moral decisions, but I'm not sure discussing it in terms of the stages would be effective.
> In particular, Reimer et al. (1983) have wondered whether Kohlberg, by explicitly encouraging the students to think of themselves as a community, is not practicing a form of indoctrination.
Essays on Moral Development, Vol. I: The Philosophy of Moral Development
Anno
I really like the out-of-focus chromatic aberration they've got going on.
Kirara 🚗
that does look really good
Kirara 🚗
spider-gwen in it is cool
Kirara 🚗
gwenpool movie fucking when
Anno
I really dig the hoodie and runner shorts over Miles' spidey costume. Some of the colours are so good too. That super neon shot of Manhattan is totally my ＡＥＳＴＨＥＴＩＣ
Kirara 🚗
the spider-mans comic was pretty good it doesn't look like they're going that route though
Kirara 🚗
for reference, that was an event where the main universe spider-man got sucked into ultimate universe where miles was spider-man and met black nick fury and stuff there was this scene where nick is like "they got a nick fury where you come from?" "uhh yeah" "what's he like?" "well, white" "sorry to hear that"
it was very samuel l jackson
Anno
Oh I've seen that panel -page, I believe.
Kirara 🚗
i've posted it on /moe/ before so probably
Anno
Yeah that would do it.
Anno
>>514311 It's a bit hard to distinguish, but there's actually two Spider-Men besides Morales and Gwen in that Spider-Verse trailer though. The first one that saves him and has a spidersense connection isn't the Hobo Peter in the rest of the trailer. So it might yet be that Miles' Parker, the one that saves him, dies, and Hobo Parker still gets sucked into Miles' universe.
i can't find it either looked on b-ok, #bookz, a book private tracker im on why are you looking for these essays anyway? i've never heard this guy mentioned before
>>514341 The higher stages are stages that lead to more radical conclusions the more consistently they're applied, I think It's not that they always necessarily will
Well I want to read it anyway to get more info on it than what little I've been able to see
Anno
as a gentleman and a scholar i only watch mp5 anime bitches
Anno
don't bring those to school
Anno
I lovingly convert my anime into .mov files before I partake in their consumption.
Kirara 🚗
>>514347 that's fair it may be hard to find digital copies of the books though
Anno
watches cute anime girls converted ascii with mpv is pretty dank as well
Kirara 🚗
>>514347 https://web.archive.org/web/20111004152005/http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kohlberg.htm wikipedia offers this as an external link
sk
That's an article about Kohlberg and the theory though, not his actual work But I'll read this also
Kirara 🚗
what do you mean by actual work
sk
Like Moral Development, Vol. I: The Philosophy of Moral Development is like fucking 441 pages dude
Kirara 🚗
oh nevermind i see what you're saying now yeah that's just an article with some information about it but that's an excerpt from a book about theories of moral development by william crain it's from like a textbook
sk
Ya I'm still reading it, but a full understanding would require reading the source I think
my local library is pretty limited regarding foreign books sadly there's Das Kapital, but only translated to dutch
Anno
>>514361 vlc has that asskey art mode I forgot how to set it up though
Kirara 🚗
>>514363 his writings are mostly discussion of the empirical basis for this theory what do you want to get out of it exactly? there might be other resources
Anno
>>514365 nice, I can't find it for mpv looks like it's not compiled with the right library
>>514366 I want to understand his basis for the theory and his initial moral philosophy in its development I want to understand how he came to the conclusion that a theory which so perfectly aligns with my own perceived political development is measurable and predictably going in the direction I see as valid and good progression of moral philosophy
>>514369 he's not going to talk about moral philosophy at length, he's presenting a theory so he's going to discuss the previous theories like piaget's theory of moral development
if you want to understand the basis on which the theory is built, you can read his studies
He doesn't really need to As someone who was an anarchist-like type and postulated the theory, he will also likely see the theory as an accurate and progressively improving approach to moral questions
>>514371 the stages are organized in that hierarchy because higher stages have the insights of the lower stages but lower stages don't understand the insights of the higher stages kohlberg doesn't make an attribution to any stage as "more moral" in an objective sense however he does say it's ideal for people to reach the higher stages because that will allow them to create a better society the post-conventional stage doesn't necessitate the removal of laws or rules or rulers, just that people in that stage are willing to engage in behaviors that put other factors before the law stage 6 includes civil disobedience - a refusal to follow unjust laws but that doesn't necessarily mean getting rid of all laws, just that if everyone in stage 6 /// everyone was in stage 6, they would be dedicated to eliminating unjust laws and rules and would be willing to disobey those in order to do so
stage 5 for example is a recognition that social contracts are what keep a society together, rather than laws, and thus the social contracts are more important than laws it also includes recognition of individual rights and mutual respect and all of that, because social contracts necessitate that
Anno
>>514375 I have no idea I've only livewatched it with // the first episode with tano folks I'm really enjoying golden kamuy though wotakoi is alright but feels kind of lacking to me
Anno
>>514377 tano is that moo clone right? with golden kamuy I didn't really get what it was going to somehow and was pretty boring too, but maybe that's just the introduction episode? is wotakoi a romance story? it's the one in the office right?
yeah tano is very similar to moo but different in the way sam has gone in code vs what notso and wulf have done I think it would be worth giving it another shot even just for the three episode rule wotakoi is the office romance otaku thing yeah I guess it's good if you like comfy
Anno
there's also some edgy witch thing and some other anime worth watching I'm not an anime person so I can't really recall it right now
