i wonder what it is that compels people to drift off-topic in conversation like you can ask someone a simple question and they'll start answering it, then interject to explain something that's necessary to understand to finish the sentence, but then keep elevating the conversational energy and drift off topic
everybody around me does it and it's annoying but usually i'm not encountering it in work it's even weirder to do it in a professional setting
not even that it's inconvenient, which it is, but i'm wondering what reservoirs the brain is pulling from while conversing that compells that there's gotta be a region that's overexcited and the flow of conversation is seeking connections and then one of those reservoirs breaks open like a dam or something
when i was younger and real curious about linguistics i always thought of it, and tried to model it as a directed construction of elements with a semi-clear goal and some "close enough" aim with microadjustments i think it makes a lot more sense now as the opening of a channel for the stimulated reservoirs to drive a path towards resolving back to the base of course brains are more complex so it'd just be a model that the brain approximates to some measure, of which there would be infinite such models, but it seems like one that would be pretty easy to mess around with and explore
Google Drive is the worst file organization experience I've ever had in my entire life. The people that designed this system should be put against the wall.
google automatically hid this column in this spreadsheet for some reason it's so small that i can't click and drag to enlarge it there's no option to change the width of column like there is in excel
this is ridiculous
Koi-
>>285819 I'd tell you why but the answer would frustrate you
Kirara
also i can't even see the text if i change wrap-text to overflow or anything
>>285813 Yeah they just contacted and told me I can pick it up at the student accomedation reception. I am so anxious, i was I wasn't so much of an idiot
>>285827 This sort of thing could happen to anyone. It's great that they contacted you about it. I'd be really anxious, too, but it sounds like it'll be okay.
FormerRei@mobile
Oh shit Cuphead is on Win7
Kannagi
>>285829 So much anxiety. I hope I get it. I will have to take another train in and I have a doctors appointment tomorrow early. so I'll have to leave as soon as my appointment is finished.
>>285831 is the doctor's appoint just a general check up?
Kannagi
>>285832 It is a specialised appointment for my hearing. So I need to go to it. It is at 9am and about an hour and then I will have to get on a 2 hour train. to collect my phone
>>285837 is it really bad, the tinnitus? i know you have general hearing issues at the moment but is that in particular really bad?
Kannagi
>>285838 Well it is really hard to get an appointment it took me ages to get the appointment so I'd rather not miss it. It is pretty bad hearing fluctuating hearing loss. Some days it is fine and other days I can't hear shit.
does the tinnitus flare up worse when you have bad anxiety? i know there's other hearing problems but the symptomology of that tinnitus might be really important
Kannagi
Well I hopefully will find out properly tomorrow and also hopefully retrieve my phone
Kannagi
Using the find my phone things with Google is amazing. I can track my phone and I locked it. I am glad it exists.
>>285841 I've been really worried about your anxiety levels for a long time you know that severe anxiety can cause hearing issues and tinnitus, right? i just want to really point that out because your doctor might be looking at more physiological reasons when maybe it's neurological my anxiety meds help whenever i have tinnitus issues >>285844 it'd be worth mentioning that you have real bad anxiety, especially if there's a noticable difference in your hearing problems when anxious
Kannagi
>>285843 I didn't know that. I will bring it up with them. I have mentioned I have anxiety before but my main doctor didn't do much just explained that seeing your heart beat in your eyes is sign of high stress.
I got chastised for scheduling my interview at 11:30 for reasons including that it doesnt show that I'm motivated or so, and that even drug addicts are up by then.
>>285844 a general physician can (although they arent always willing to) prescribe anxiety meds like xanax i'm not tryin to push you to do anything but i'd really like to see both you and SK get your anxiety under control it's been a huge positive in my life and i worry about my friends suffering the same as i was
Anno
>>285845 Tell her you're cultivating this image that you've already had an interview or two that day. So that it makes it seem like you're a hot commodity.
Kirara
>>285845 tell her to buy you some drugs so you can get up earlier
The guy gave me a time period and I scheduled in that time
She also is concerned about my eye appointment at 1:30 but I let the guy know about that and I cant see this interview going on that long when I have already interviewed for this position and taken the typing test >>285850 7:30 to 2:00
Kirara
what was the time period
Anno
I don't think she's wrong to take into account that giving you the freedom to schedule an interview time can -potentially- be a game of the interviewer to see how you react. But at the same time there's so many ways that can be interpreted. Perhaps they were wating wanting to see if you would take initiative and didn't care what time you picked, as long as you were the one who scheduled it.
Kirara
what is the meeting going to consist of? since you already did one meeting
ToN
I am not sure it doesnt really say aside from an interview and a typing test, the latter of which I have already taken and I have also been interviewed so
hmm i probably would have done 10:00 if i wanted to do it later since 11:30 is close to lunch time for most businesses i wouldn't want to do it close to lunch in case it gets in the way
i would probably do 8:00 or 9:00 though since i'm an early riser
moon
>>285845 lol what i schedule my appointments whenever they're available i dont see why that's an issue
>>285854 If I had a set schedule I might have realized lunch
I just wanted to make sure I was 100% up Clean and showered
Anno
>>285854 If it was for a 9-5 job I'd probably set in for a time around 09:00-10:00, to show I'm set already to show up to work. I can't think of any real negative connotations that can be drawn from that, and even if the interviewer doesn't actually care, I don't lose anything really.
FormerRei@mobile
I hit a fly with a wet paper towel in the kitchen and I'm pretty sure I killed it. I heard its death buzz But I ha be *have no idea where the body is.
>>285856 well it's probably fine they won't really care about "initiative" as much as she thinks all they care about is that you show up on time and do your part as a gear in the machine
"initiative" and shit like that is like the mindset of the 70s-80s and it's just not really like that anymore old people don't know how to get jobs in today's market
>>285870 i think allowing it is fine because it doesn't even matter anymore there's so much that the sub-140 will still be the substrate for attention nobody's gonna read that shit except in really specific circumstances
FormerRei@mobile
I want block chain verified tweets But like, baked in to Twitter
Kirara
there are like a billion things that need to be addressed before shit like this
like maybe address the fact that nazis organize and indoctrinate people and so does ISIS though twitter or that the president basically declared war through twitter
or the fact that the mobile app is unstable as hell
shit's dumb twitter has poor priorities
Kirara
apparently 9% of english tweets hit the character limit which twitter interpreted as meaning that the character limit needs to be longer
Kirara
>Most English tweets are 34 characters ??????
Maria
>>285877 But the nazis keep twitter relevant They're not gonna cut off such a an amazing source of revenue
This squirrel eating a chocolate bar is what distracted me and probably caused me to drop my phone.
Anno
That's a good story though. Just imagine being able to tell that story for the comedy of it once you've got your phone safely back with you.
Kannagi
I hope I can get it back. I'll feel so relieved once I have it.
moon
he probably distracted you while another squirrel snuck up behind you and took it they're crafty fuckers
Anno
I was walking out to the pizza parlour over the weekend and there was this tiny cat that seemed like it was picking a fight with a black squirrel. I don't know if they're commonplace where you all are but those guys are BIG. The cat was only slightly larger than the squirrel and I was worried it was going to pick a fight it wasn't going to end happy with. Even my cat doesn't fuck with the squirrels and she hunts pretty much any kind of small mammal.
FormerRei@mobile
>>285885 I had neighbors whose cat hunted raccoons.
>>285887 uh, i either grab a notebook and a pen and start physically writing (much better outlet bc it syncs your body's motions with your brain's thought and helps interhemispheral communication) or i just lay down and let the idea resonate and use a broad spectrum of thoughtspace environments as a sounding board to help me clarify what I want to put down i don't smoke a cigarette because that makes me feel like i've accomplished something without putting any work and i'll just lay down and feel satisfied as though having thought of it is enough
or i start talking at people on /moe/ and some things precipitate out of it and then i collect those little elements that fell out of it and stick them somewhere to reflect upon later
Kirara
if you let inspiration pass you'll never see it again
>>285892 That's totes not necessarily true. Plenty of ideas I've had but not acted on have rebounded back after stewing on the back burner of my brain for a while.
Kirara
well inspiration and an idea are a little different imo
Anno
Yeah, I guess I can see that. I hold on to that feeling pretty well though.
i do most of my data parsing when i'm asleep to be honest whatever's inspiring your consciousness will be undressed when you're asleep and your conscious dissolves into its component elements which each think about it independently
it's like if you had a big board meeting with chairman and board members and they discuss a big issue, that's your consciousness, and then when you go to sleep is when the board meeting ends for a recess to resume the next day and all the board members get time to reflect on the issues and arguments presented and convene in the morning again to resume deliberation
that's what i usually do because it's like a built-in data parser in your brain instead of me doing all the work i'll just sleep and let those fuckers deal with it
Anno
>>285891 One of my favourite times to mull ideas is when I'm winding down for bed. I struggle with falling asleep so there's always a good half hour or more of time where I'm just relaxing laying down, so I try to put it towards building on creative ideas I've had recently.
>>285902 I'm reading issues of Prrof of Concept or Get the Fuck Out *Proof It's an informal journal that has amusing exploits and challenges for people to explot other stuff Err, hacking journal Also it's written in the style of like a Christian newsletter
>>285905 i'll be working about the next 16 hours and then sleeping but tomorrow evening my time i could take a look even if it doesnt make sense i can prolly still follow you the people in my transcripts never make sense either but i still have to follow what they mean it's nbd
>>285907 ya sure, I'll be home from work in about 16 hours so that matches well I can give you what I have at that point to look over
What I'm writing may have been written before but I don't think it has because there'd be way more anarchists and if I'm not lost somewhere, it should be viral
>>285938 It was beautiful What a fucking blunder They had a potential cash cow and they took it out back and shot it
Kirara
it's a shame that kemono friends is dead now though
Maria
>>285941 Yeah it could have kept on going and been a big thing with lots of shows and ovas and games and stuff Could've been like 20 years of kemono friends
But now that's it. It's over. Japanese businessmen are too fucking retarded and stubborn to apologize
>>285965 that's a pretty safe build i have a +atk swimsuit robin too but i haven't put any of my energy into her yet i've got too many vanilla frobins to take care of first
>>285967 I think she may be good after all that, I noticed she is one of the few blue units that really does big physical damage to lunatic black knight.
moon
fury is pretty important since you've already got the deft harpoon a waste not to i feel like renewal isn't adequate enough because she's a dual phase unit and she's gonna take damage that renewal won't heal i like to pair with a utility healer instead like breath of life or falchion battery
That's all I've been using her for thus far. I'd like to make her useful though.
>>285971 I've considered pairing her with a falchion battery, but making her dependent on other units will limit the number of teams I can put her on. I think the renewal build will work well with any teams with lots of movement options.
ToN
my lewd robin is stronk
ToN
i got a lady corrin so its time to level her and 5* her and feed her to Ninian
The problem is I'm getting bogged down in making sure I get the fucking terms I use right And I didn't fully develop them So now I'm doing that I have the vague idea but classifying is difficult
Kirara
>>285989 I can dig it It can be hard to get your point across when you aren't used to writing like that
>>286015 Could be from jpeg compression Since it's lossy
FormerRei@mobile
>>286017 When it was revealed my friend started calling it Tumblr's favorite card I actually have one somewhere too
FormerRei@mobile
>>286004 Formicanopia is the technical term for "has hallucinations of insects"
moon
ive had lots of hallucinations but never of insects, despite dealing with insects quite a lot i wonder why that is i imagine there's some part of the brain that responds to hallucinations more sensitively depending on the variety of stimuli you interface with regularly i dunno i'm tied to the internet and data so my brain probably doesn't spend much time worrying about insects as it might have been a generation ago with people in log cabins always worried about them where's oliver sacks when you need him
>>286023 why'd he go and do that? he's no use to me there
Kirara
someday somehow you will die and something will steal your carbon
moon
i'll hopefully leave my consciousness behind to bitch at people while i'm gone
Maria
Leave an ai to post in your place
moon
i hope to do so it'll be so closely interfaced with a wealth of data though that it will be bitching at companies for poor market research principles, publishing bad data, and poor UX design it will also have several years worth of frontier advertisements in its catalogue, hopefully enough to parse the thoughtspace that gave birth to those advertisements and continue to make them long after frontier goes bankrupt and spam everybody in the year of our lord 2400 with dumb advertisements for an outdated technology air travel service
oh lmao we actually have a word that basically means the same as bourgie in Norwegian Soss
I always knew about it, but I didn't connect the dots They're not synonyms, but a soss is someone who basically presents as a bourgie Like, with expensive stuff, mostly directed at teens\young adults, though in my experience
sk
And the Swedes have 'sosse', but they use it alot about members of SD and their voters, apparently SD being the... mo-
moon
sk i know you're sad about kemono friends thing so here's something to replace it >>>/watch?v=WQMPPrfkWZk
Maria
>>286029 Millions of years after humanity dies out, Frontier ads will be the legacy we leave to the aliens. >>286034 Goodnight
>>286051 do you ever have vision problems as a result of your stimulant medications my vision's been going kind of dark in the evenings when it's been wearing off lately i don't think it's actually my eyes though, but just the registry
Kirara
>>286053 never had that problem or heard it reported usually stimulants make vision brighter if there's a side effect
moon
i more mean when it wears off though it might be because i lost my glasses for like a week or allergies that are making my eyes hurt though i'm not sure if it's my vision per se, but it's the same problem i had when i took my visual acuity test on the full spectrum psych exam that eventually led to my ADD diagnosis it's like an inability to process visual information well you remember that paper i showed you, it was like i scored in the 1st percentile on that shit i guess it makes sense when the meds i'm taking to help my add wear off?
>>286056 how bad? mine are really bad lately they didn't used to be this bad but they're getting really bad it'd be easier for me at this point just to be completely blind, i'd have less distraction
Kirara
>>286055 hmm i dunno ive never heard of anything like that with stims though i mean obviously that doesn't mean that's not the stims but you get what i mean
>>286059 well i had the problem before i ever took stims too that's why i was deemed ADD my visual processing has always been shit i dunno why i just notice that it's worse with andrenergics and worse when coming off of stimulants >>286061 can you see the TV from your couch, say six feet away? not that i watch TV, but i would only see vague figures and i wouldn't be able to read any text on screen
>>286062 i'm about two feet from my laptop screen and i can read text, but there's a fade on it and a slight astigmatism i'm also... let me see at 125% zoom on my browser i hate working like this, trying to edit all that text it gives me such a headegg
>>286066 eyes really suck vision takes up so much thoughtspace and for what? just blurry blobs no thanks
Kirara
wish i could see without glasses it really bothers me a lot that i can't see fish's face when we're lying in bed unless i put my glasses on or get like literally in her face
moon
wish i could see without crippling misery and self-loathing maybe an eye doctor will help me out
Kirara
probably not
moon
>doc can you help me? >what's wrong >everytime i open my eyes i only see misery and despair >same
My being blind and slow witted only adds to my impressive reservoir of moe.
moon
it is a little moe but i'm more relieved that someone knows how i feel and my glasses are all messed up too the frame is messed up and it doesn't stay rigid it flops around like a floppy flopper
Kirara
i got a second pair of glasses or rather i have my old glasses still my new glasses are better but my old ones would be fine for an emergency
I have two pairs of glasses. I had an old pair that's beat up when I am home, I feel like my eyes rest better when wearing them because they are a little out of focus. I have a nice pair I wear when outside and stuff.
>>286097 I change anti depressant dosages and types pretty often so I have sort of preferred to keep my other meds the same in order to get a better sense for what the changes are
Also My sister is going backpacking in Thailand in a few weeks How do I convince her that she ought to get a knife Cause she doesn't really get that hiking in actual wilderness is potentially dangerous and that its best to have at least a bare minimum of tools and some amount of knowledge
>>286111 Well, I wanted to play MGR but it doesn't recognize my playstation 4 controller. So I pulled out my xbox controller but it is broken. So I glued it.
>>286114 I couldn't think of a cute game to play and I wanted to play a cute game so I downloaded MGR instead. Last time I had this feeling I ended up playing MGSV now that I think about it.
FormerRei@mobile
Disregarding shitty third party controllers I really don't get how someone could break their controller with normal use In less than 15 years anyways.
>>286125 Wowme2 Well, I could probably scrounge it up Oh yeah, I got a magic card recently that goes for like $60 I won't sell it though, cause it will probably go higher
FormerRei@mobile
Also, blue I got more stuff on humble recently. You like Sonic games at all?
Although really I need to finish fixing/diagnosing it That's the main reason i haven't been using it, even though I know exactly what to do. I also ought to check my backups for corruption Since the likely problem is disk related
>>286157 >>286158 yo can we tone it down a bit there are some people who already are feeling like they're unappreciated in the community i don't mean to be rude but i don't feel like this helps
Alright good cause I think I just realized I'm dealing with spooks and there's egoism in here It might not be the same I dunno cause I don't fuckin' read
Cause like I don't think communism or anarchy can exist independent of eachother They're the same "anarchy" where you just remove the state isn't stable worth a goddamn, yaknow And communism isn't communism until it's anarchy, because nobody's equal until everyone is
My head's a little buzzy cause I didn't sleep much though I gotta try to get some of these thoughts noted down during breaks and stuff at work, I have something to do during work now
But I think I mentioned to you before that all communists are, at the end of the day, anarchists cause that's what communism is and any and all states are fucking revisionism to begin with
>>286208 Yeah Bang I heard you're going down to McDonalds can you please grab me a double cheese burger, some fries, and three mc-chicken sauce packets Say that free for three sent you, they'll know what it means.
>>286221 yes actually i'm transitioning into a similarly paying position with less prestige and less hours >>286224 most likely yes i make enough money to be happy and don't have a too many responsibilities outside the amount of hours i work
the road to hell probably isn't even paved tbh who the hell would pave it?
bangu
>>286226 honestly yeah kinda i've learned that environment effects happiness only inasmuch as it effects your stability most happiness comes from deciding where your own goal posts are and what makes you happy for yourself and not letting others or their constructs decide it for you
>>286231 maybe i'd say i'm happy because my most important goalposts are met, and the other goalposts are like bonuses i have enough money to live i n a comfortable home with good food and don't lack for anything i need and i live frugally enough to spend money on my passions like live music and social events
Maria
I bet there's a guy whose job it is to pave the road to hell Only for all his paving to get ripped up again as soon as he finishes
>>286233 Good for you man It's nice to see someone say straight up that they're happy
>>286238 I think keeping a road you intend people to use paved and in good condition is a top priority. He still finds time to just hang around in Georgia playing the fiddle so I'm sure he can find some time to pave a road.
physical property is overrated i find that i'm happy because i surround myself with entertaining company like you guys and like my local social circles
bangu
alright time to go watch neo yokio with some dudes
It's a lot easier to stay cheery at work when I take my meds I even got my group leader spot back, and the assignment is super ez to be the quality control for
Maria
>>286392 group leader is a pretty prestigous sounding role
sk
I'm really just the kapo Except, yaknow, I don't inform on people and nobody dies
Anno
I'm falling to the bottom, everything I did forgotten
Maria
>>286394 But if you work you die Snitches get stitches
I've written a fair bit already, before I went to bed, so I can send you that when I get home I might need to change some stuff either before or after though >>286403 Oh damn, I thought you had like 5
i still have some bus vouchers by the way i gotta come visit you soon
Kannagi
I got my phone back
Anno
Omedetou. Must be nice to get that worry off your shoulders.
Kannagi
real nice. now gotta figure where I am
Anno
Oh gosh, what a great chance to use that phone you just got back! Unless it 's battery died while it was in the lost and found, I guess that would probably happen huh.
it just means blue-cheese bacon though aura is a river in the city of turku, and the cheese type was first named Aura-cheese, when introduced in finland so everyone just calls it auracheese, when they mean bluecheese even if it isn't actually Aura
there's suddenly a really big argument about whether or not active duty soldiers should be allowed to enter socialist organizations it's a really stupid argument
how are you supposed to win a revolution without soldiers? even lenin had soldiers
>>286440 The argument is that soldiers are tools for imperialism and thus shouldn't be allowed to join, but you can't just quit the military, and there's no telling when someone will become a socialist in their life.
and then some people are getting really mad about it
You should actually approach soldiers, since the military minded turn quite patriotic and nationalistic and even fascist at times I can tell I've been int he army
someone told me that american soldiers never rebel and sabotage the military, all they do is "cheeky photo ops" so i said "what about chelsea manning who exposed war crimes?" and the person is trying to being revisionist now and claiming chelsea defected from the military
Btw according to some, the army here still persecutes the red families not allowing them to get into high posts or officer academy et al and now we are at 4th generation from the people who actually fought in the civil war
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286449 or the whistleblower from the drone program
Is not really that good document, but I'd still say check it out National Bird was its name
Kirara
also someone on twitter just mentioned that apparently kaban-chan is Tatsuki's (the director) IP maybe? which would mean they can't finish the show no matter what
That is a weird contract to make when doing a show giving the rights tot he director
Kirara
yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense to me
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
especially in japan a place that is so grey to IP laws
Kirara
yeah, it doesn't sound normal to me at all so i kind of doubt it's true
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
One thing if it was like Miyazaki's works that all were his short stories or manga before really being turned side by side into movies but all the director could claim would be designs but even then the company can go "you did them during working hours, therefore we own them"
Anno
Saudi Arabia to end general ban on female drivers in Summer 2018
Kirara
osoi
Kirara
>>286460 yeah idk kemono friends is dead anyway the entire team quit lol
>50k refugees to be taken directly from africa, middle-east and turkey and then spread amongst memmber states proposes EU you know just picked by EU not actually allowed to be refused once "relocated" to the host country
Also I love how all top Eurocrats want to lessen the amount of comissars from 1 per member to 15 and even have "half the MEPs be elected from a pool of all Euromembers, instead of each member choosing their own representatives" Democracy!
this revisionist shitter is straight up denying recent historical facts and telling me that chelsea manning defected from the military
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
main reason for districts in parliament, is that the people who become a candidate of a district also LIVES there so it is reasonable to presume they have somewhat the interests of the region in mind not to mention region here can be anything from city of helsinki, to an entire province
Kannagi
I got a powerbank to recharge my phone. On my way home now
the only reason russia didn't end up with a military junta during 1917, was because lenin and socialism were more popular amongst the army than the general staff the army just didn't rally after them so the red guard went and arrested all the coup attempters
>>286491 Well yeah once shit gets heavy they're good to have
Kirara
>>286496 they're always good to have 1. you don't get to decide when to develop class consciousness 2. you can't just quit the military so you're stuck there
I know there are issues there, and I guess I can see the argument yeah And I guess there's also the problem with getting work after you leave the military and stuff
I dunno, I'm not sure if I even really see a use for organizations beyond propaganda purposes The bordigists got to me man
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
we won our civil war against the commie filth, because all our people joined the whites who knew how to use guns
Must have been a weird moment for all the inbetweeners in the army thinking there okay... who to support a military junta that would maybe one day restore democracy and secularism or play it safe and only act once one side is winning, which most likely is king roach
>>286500 Yeah, for an armed uprising you're gonna need the military to at least sympathize with you Idunno, it's not something I'm super clear on
Kirara
it's ok to dislike the military but it's just a fact that they're necessary if you can have soldiers that are legitimately on your side and believe in socialist ideals, there's no reason not to allow them to take part
All you need to do is to mkae sure the army isn't on the side of the government at that point really. ie. Egypt, where the army didn't interfere in the revolution untill they had to declare marshal law to keep things in order but that was already post mubarak
amusingly, the us army kinda revolted against obama in 2012 or 11
On the flipside, though How many revolutions have been attempted with numbers that could even make it happen without like, most of the military on their side?
You know what would be the easiest palce to take over Iceland
Kirara
>>286508 no it doesn't cops engage in domestic oppression and are free to stop being cops these people can literally stop oppressing people and choose not to
>>286530 Oh yeah a REAL GOOD PRAXIS BOY I follow on twitter actually ran what was essentially a smallscale railroad operation for soldiers who wanted to leave the military back in the day I don't remember when he said he did it, and even if I did I wouldn't say cause I don't wanna compromise him His account wasn't locked when he posted the story, but still Don't wanna make it easier for him to get in trouble, he's a good boy
If I had continued in the priest education thingie, and been motivated I'd prolly be applying for chaplain post atm
Maria
>>286533 Signing away 6 years must be a lot of pressure
>>286538 That's even more That's like a quarter of your life
>>286542 Yeah can't blame the millitary for wanting a return on that But it'd suck to do a few years and then decide you don't wanna be a pilot anymore
>>286558 Defection means turning on your country/side and joining the enemey she only serves the people and the country by exposing the army >>286563 no that means country=government or country=military staff
sk
>>286562 Exposing warcrimes is turning on your country
Country is its people led by the government, given power by the people even in the case of USA did the whistleblower betray the people or the government when exposing the misdoings of the military staff? >>286566 lol
Kirara will make fun of me if I say that the most likely character for me to get as my new leader is Illya
Maria
>>286566 If the government classifies something as a warcrime then she's not betraying her country She's instead helping the country enforce its own laws
sk
The nation is in opposition to the proletariat De facto
"In politics, a defector is a person who gives up allegiance to one state in exchange for allegiance to another, in a way which is considered illegitimate by the first state." to an other
WHAT IS THE OTHER PARTY? is people now in opposition to the government?
>>286584 Well if they break confidentaly rules and such they are breaking the law and thus in some form are traitors but the point is, that say an army that ousts a dictator is also treacherous army but they did it for a good cause
Soldiers get it so wrong at times though they like cops forget that their loality is to the country, to the people not the pen pushers in their expensive leather chairs
because the enemy of usa is the least likely to give them up take assange who hides in also hostile to usa embassy of whatever country was it venezuela? in the UK because he never made it out of the country when they came for him
Kirara
Snowden is considered a defector yeah actually Not from the military though He defected from the NSA, officially
Kannagi
Ecuador or something >>286596 he can't leave the embassy building
>>286597 I mean I guess when literally the entire world are the people you're fucking with, anyone who tells anyone is defecting in a sense He hurt the NSA by leaking the things
Kannagi
>>286599 they spend shittons keeping police all over the embassy just for him
How's your Swedish, actually? >>286616 Damn The song I like the best is Swedish Though on the other hand, I don't think you'd like it cause of the lyrics, hah
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
rusty as fuck i can read it, though
Kirara
apparently lawmakers in uganda's parliament are getting in fist fights over the presidential age limit
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286617 I just love the parilaments where they settle arguments with mass fights happens a lot in eastern europe
as in half to practically empty the meps don't show up to most of the gatherings, and why would they? Euro Parliament has only power to say "no" to laws they can't change them or influence how they are made and any law rejected by them can be brought back infinitely and without anything changed about it
Kirara
yeah it's pretty ridiculous how empty the building is all the time the whole system is a farce
the comissars are so randomly chosen thatn o one knows the only actual democratic part is the highest council what was it euro council that is made up of the head of governments of each member nation as in, the HoGs are atleast elected by their own people directly they hold the highest power after comissars
even figuring out how EU actually works is a pain in the ass, cause all you can easily find is the propaganda version of it which is all filled with bullshit
Kannagi
commissars makes me think of that space marines thing. Warhammer.
98 seat hype >>286636 HAHAHAHA yeah that is true well east germans know shit ruling by heart and also are still kinda fucked over by the richer western parts
Kirara
yeah it's like prime Fascist Conditions over there
I am surprised they didn't get more votes guess people still believed in the minor parties
The populist-right parties are a laugh always to follow they are so filled with characters so many different types of people flock to them nowadays. From outright legitimate nazies to just people who have lost hope int he system and parties
>>286642 Wll they aren't picky about support they are realpolitik like that Just gotta hope that the populist and reformers are the ones with the power, when they get in control and not the fringers
I just wish that for some weird miracle the True Finns win next election and Halla-aho becomes prime minister >The Master is the prime minister of Finland I would die laughing
The guy is dangerous and has huge dictator potentional, but I doubt he himself has ambitions like that he seems like a genuine patriot, but power always corrupts
you should watch macross 7 it's really long though so maybe break it up into a few episodes in between other series at least until around halfway though, since it picks up
FMP makes sense too cause the mechas just are mechas walking war machines but when you have codeg eass/gundam style I just start losing interest >flying mechas why? airplane is much more effective shape to be in if you are flying
Kirara
i love that the MC in Macross 7 is actually a pacifist it's not like "i don't want to fight but i will to protect myself" it's like "i'm not going to attack you even if i'm going to die"
I wonder how many eps of 7 I watched back then I just timed it wrong I had just watched frontier original macross and then started 7 I had had my fill of macross for a good time, so I just didn't even finish it up
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
also uni exams and all dat got into the way too
Kirara
i think it actually takes a bit of dedication to get into macross 7 like you have to actually have time for it and be able to soldier through the slow first part
Nah I just need to sit down and watch it like I do with all my anime I am really bad at watching anything bit by bit or playing games bit by bit I always do a daylong session or nuttin like all of my 106 hours of civ5 are prolly 6 days?
For example I rewatched brothrhood in 2 days just a while ago I simply take all the free time I have and then spend it 100% on the thing I like otherwise i practically just idle all the freetime can't do "a bit of gaming then bit of anime"
Nah they are just a mixpot of populist-right-wing-and-extreme-rightwing people >>286681 just some that the media had a fieldday with to be precise like eeery populist party in europe atm
I sometimes think they do it just for publicity >>286689 Yeah lot of people are a lot of fringes ther but the actual official lines aren't that extreme
quite the basic anti-eu, anti-mass-immigration and such the only thing I really question about them is re-establishing conscription in germany
In economics they are somewhere in the centre like most such parties don't really support big state or big social care but don't want to take anything down and don't really support big corpo but don't want to restrict them further
Kirara
>>286688 why would they want to re-establish conscription?
But you miss the point in the privatization of germany they had first nationalized all that property from the original owners anyhow they just redistributed it to the big corpo so they would stay loyal to the war machine good amount of that nat-pri was anyhow jewish stuff whatsovever.
But they would have gone without them most likely, if they could have but hitler needed the middle-high class burgeoisie on his side in the end I bet he would have purged them once his external enemies were gone anyhow
Same would have happened to Christianity too they were just nice to them, because it served their interests.
Well there isn't much to talk about nazism is so difficult to classify, cause it never was anything real it is more like a real world version of the PARTY in 1984
It is an economy to serve the state, and that is all that matters both fasc and naz are in the end just ideologies centred around worshipping the state as a religious idol practically
Like the thing is Fascism isn't a real thing It's not an actual THING, there's no fucking end point for a fascist state There is no finalized product on the table, there's only death and suffering
>>286728 Yeah but there's no point where a fascist state like, stops doing horrible shit >>286730 Yeah, sure, for nationalists and fascists it can work out As long as you're alright with human suffering that doesn't hit you, you'll be alright in a fascist country until it DOES hit you Cause that's just a matter of time
Like you can technically live your whole life and die a natural death, I'm not saying everyone in a fash state will die at the hands of the state But it like... doesn't stop shrinking the in-group It can't
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
it can be utilitaristically good in the end if more people are content than who suffer to make that happen
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286729 not really the ingroup most likely will stay same % and as does the "non-problems" and as do the undesired but with basic population growth, the numbers will grow eventually
Yeah, it CAN do that But not the fascism Hitler was about at least He wanted self sufficiency, right? That means no imperialism
You can't do that without going actual like, fascist socialist Which is essentially a wealthy ruling class, elimination of profit, and welfare for everyone That's possible, totally doable It's the only realistic end for capitalism
well he wasn't they sold those properties to the big coprs, because they needed money and then they funded their expenses with war loot they didn't have any good economical shit going on that would have lasted the real good question to them is "what now" after they had taken the europe a good answer to it "economical collapse"
Yeah, I should have worded that differently It's easy to mix together capitalism and exchange based production, cause capitalism is like the only real exchange based economy that is used big time
But they definitely had that, a mode of production where products were made for exchange, not use
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
you should watch althistorys vids on "what if germany won ww2" they do it quite good
sk
That sounds interesting actually I need inspiration to write more anyway, I'mma go watch it Is it real long?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
maybe 30 min total
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
alternate history channel has lot of good stuff and their alt channel knowledge hubtoo would recommend subbing to both
Also this isn't related directly to this discussion or the image \\\video But when people say communism is collectivist, that rubs me the wrong way, man It's fucking globalist
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
do you understand what collectivism means exactly?
OK I'm gonna stop beating you with a book here, cause I don't think that's gonna accomplish anything So I wanna ask you
Since there's no competition in communism, which we agree on What do you think takes its place?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
nature disagrees
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286754 no I mean by just simple observation of how all life has evolved in the past and look at the human history competition between individuals and parties is what has driven everything to this point
>>286758 rotting not evolving not changing satus quo ad infinitum with eventual collapse due to everything just building up without adding new fuel and so on how big empires have all collapsed
Right, I get you I get you, I think I might have been unclear there I don't mean what result takes the place of the result of competition I meant, what takes the place of competition itself in the system?
1. goes against human nature 2. why would people co-operate if the co-operation doesn't get them anything? you can social engineer people all you want and give them all idealistic fervos and so on but people in the end are selfish and think of their own gain and the gain of those close tot hem we are tribalists by nature
sk
First off, the mere existence of police means what we have now is directly hostile to human nature and has to suppress it
But even ignoring that Why wouldn't you cooperate to improve the lives of everyone?
Social contract supports the survival of the group and thus is beneficial to it however social contract doesn't in all successful nations prevent competition between the ingroups of the big group
sk
The social contract is bull
But it is And I don't even mean as an explanation, I mean as a reason If social contract theory is even sound, then it's either completely pointless, or you need somewhere on the planet for everyone who doesn't wanna to go
See you just shoot that down I shoot communism down communism is against basic nature of living creatures therefore it can't exist without constantly oppressing the individual to follow it
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
it is like making a vegetarian cat sure you can do it but the critter hates it and only does it because you force it to and most likely will die an early death
sk
I don't
sk
I don't really understand why you think cooperation is against human nature when it's like... the basis for everything pre-feudalism
HAHAHHAHAH pre feudalism was big empires and big states oppression of many by very very few even fewer than feudalism and even feudalism excerpt for few cases allowed movement between the classes
the pre-feudalism was so hierarchial that it didn'ta llow any social movement
Anno
cavemen probably had social classes too, determined by how big and strong you were
You had the big group and you had the little groups within it and anyone outside of it was the enemy and had to be competed against the people inside the group did co-operate for the preservation of self and their genes but against anyone outside that group DEATH
"co-operation could work" at a limited scale it indeed does but as humans are bad at picturing big things, and how we can at most keep what 300 connections at one time or during whole lifetime
we are incapable of working together as a whole completely the competetion is best arranged so, it serves the purpose of the big group, though with the unfortunate effect of oppressing some of the ingroups if you make competetition impossible, thatm eans you are repressing the individuals and the ingroups they form
Anno
a good metaphor i had for this that maybe is relevant but maybe not because i havent been here for the whole argument, is if there was a big red button labeled "fix everyone's problems" in front of me, i would totally press it but if that same button existed and was labeled "fix everyone's problems, but you personally lose $50" i may be more prone to not pressing the button
sk
>>286784 I dunno if that follows It doesn't make competition impossible by stopping you from it like, forcefully or anything It makes it not happen by stopping you from laying claim to means of production
>>286787 If there is no gain to get socially or materially from being brightest and best why would anyone thrive for it? if top surgeon gains as much wage or whatever have you, as say janitor why would anyone become surgeon
sk
I don't really see why nobody would wanna be surgeons anymore
Because there is no gain to the 10 years spend training for it and the stress gained from doing it only the reward of doing good, but that isn't what drives us people become doctors sure because they want to help people but also because it grants them financial security nota lot of unemployed practicers of medicine in anyw orking society afterall.
>>286794 It doesn't pay enough compared to the workload they have same problem here solution >import nurses you can guess how many qualified nurses we have gained already Nurses have been fighting a constant battle to get better wages, better work hours and better work contracts
One solution was to cut the costs by lowering doctor pays guess what that accomplished a doctor strike threat
if they just became doctors for saving lives and cause they loved their jobs why would they threaten a strike when their pay was going to be cut? They think they have earned and deserve bloody well every cent which is why they instantly retaliated
so why would anyone spend 5-15 years training for a job tht gives them no greater social or economical benefits, than a job that requires just 1-5 years of training?
Also higher education required for a job also means more burnouts in the field. High education jobs have way more people graying out early or working themselves into sick-retirement simple stress from the job
Then you need more top fielders or lose productivity/have less efficient society >>286800 so what about the fields that then become lacking in people? and once more how do you drive a person on just merit of "you will save lives" into spending 10-15 years of their life just PRACTICING for the craft?
sk
Well why not? If everyone who wanted to be a health related person could if they wanted to >>286799 There's a fair \\ really large amount of work that simply doesn't need to be done, yaknow
those machines however need top trained people to build and maintain
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
Marx' original idea had indeed "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need" a lot of people who didn't really do jackshit and a small amount of people who had to do everything and would be worked to death
well happiness for the most
sk
Why can't everyone do a little bit?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286809 so everyone is a surgeon once a week that will work
sk
No, but if everyone can study that if they wanna, then you can have a ton of surgeons
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
jack of all trades master of none
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286811 and ocne again 10-15 years for what for high stress job with no benefits social or economical
sk
>>286813 Well there's probably social benefits to being one of the people who can do surgery Like just in terms of status, even if it doesn't do much
you need highly educated bureaucrauts highly educated engineers highly educated whatsoevers on so many fields to just get things working and running and all those take 5-15 years of time spend just learning the field
>>286816 oh so communism works without bureaucracy?
If you solidly need to ask that question without joking or being ironic you don't understand ata ll how communities work were formed became societies became cities and so on
Anno
>>286813 i may only be speaking for myself here but i can confidently say that i personally woulf drop out of college in a heartbeat if i knew my future profession would make the same amount of money as a janitor
Also I mean surgery is stressful sure but like It's cause they work too much And because of the stakes, obviously
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286821 ditto and everyone I know who is above 30 would drop out if they could live without working of their jobs that is
Anno
>>286823 they would have to work more in a communist society man because there would be less surgeons which means the very small minority of people who would willingly become poorly paid surgeons would have to take on all the weight
sk
Well it's not like janitors have a purpose in communism Who'd wanna be a janitor anyway, shit sucks
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
so who keeps shit clean then?
sk
>>286827 The people who use the facility >>286829 I guess your house is a complete pigsty
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
doesn't work
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286828 this has been tried and has always failed
Anno
>>286828 my house is clean but sometimes i litter because its not my house
BUT, to your side, maybe i wouldnt litter if i knew it wouldnt be cleaned up by someone else
BUT, im sure there are many who wouldnt be so kind
Have you seen what a school is like if the cleaning staff take a leave even if they tell the students to keep the place clean? "it works in japan" it works in japan, because they are forced through punitive means to keep shit clean
Also anyone who has lived with a roomie can prove your shit wrong instantly... not to mention in actual work places that don't have hired cleanign staff and trust the normal staff to just keep it clean
>>286838 Yeah man Way more, and also not employ people to begin with
Anno
on the topic of nurses nurses do way too much janitorial work i mean the janitorial staff we DO have are a blessing but i truly feel like im doing slave work when im an educated healthcare professional cleaning piss off the floors
if there is no benefit to it why waste time training for it? if surgeon gets say 1,1 and everyone else gets 1 why become the surgeon for just the extra 10%?
sk
I don't really get why you consider learning a waste of time
Anno
it is, m8 the same reason im on this fucking board right now looking at weeb shit iinstead of studying
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286847 learning and studying are complete opposite low blow, but you don't really have much studying under your belt anyhow
sk
You study to learn, don't you? That's the point, isn't it?
You know go ask mats that what is differenceb etween learning and studying and would he spend that much time studying if it provided him with no future benefits in life
Anno
if surgeons and janitors got paid the same, people would still wanna be surgeons, but less so
I mean imats isn't a fair example because he wants to be a psych for the whole prison thing
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
true but also for the steady income and job you get to pick your field, soyou do pick the one you most desire usually I picked a field that interested me and was relatively easy to get into and stay in
>>286853 But maybe more who wanted to actually could be It was mentioned before that people drop out of school right? We can eliminate that, or at least reduce it heavily
>>286856 They drop out because they lack what it takes if tyou can't even clear the studies for the field you wouldn't survive in the field
Anno
>>286856 i disagree lad i dont have any prior knowledge on this subject and ill do a google search AFTER i make this statement, but ill bet that most students dropping out of med school arent dropping out for financial reasons
sk
>>286859 You don't think studying in today's world, especially for these kinda things, is stressful ?
yes because of the competition but that competition enables the best to reach the top fields if you lower the bars and make it easy then sure you can have tons of surgeons and do you know what esle you will have tons of dead bodies from bad operations
sk
>>286863 But what if we just help the people who are having difficulties? That's a fair amount of people dropping out, many probably need help >>286866 No it's not We're not lowering the bar, we're helping people with difficulties reach it
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
still lowering the bar and still doesn't sovle the issue "what would motivate a person to spend 5-15 year studying just to get into a field"
that just deals with people already willing to do 5-15 years for no benefits to work a hard stressful life not the actual problem of "where do you get those super motivated people" anyhow?
sk
But it would still increase the amount of those people who make it through, right?
a litre through a filter is still less than a // a litre through a funnel is still less than 2 litres through a filter man that was bad anyhow it doesn't matter if from the X pool of people you increase it so that say 1/5X gets through vs to current Y pool and 1/10Y get through if Y is simply 10 times bigger than X
sk
Maybe people who can't get the grades they need, but still want to be surgeons could be helped to understand stuff
Would you have grades in communism that is competition
sk
Well no, not really, I used it mostly for \\\ as a standin for, you know, level of understanding Grades don't need to be competitive though, necessarily
Simply said it is a tiny tiny minority who actually work in the field they desire and in the field they love most people work to live work because of necessity and try to make the best out of it they can
but in the end it is like asking "do you want to lose a finger or a toe" well you choose the one you favour the most.
People with enough luck to be in position to reach for their dreams and have the ability do so the others work hard and reach a high position to have a good life others and well most people actually settle for something they can put to gether and call it well enough and the rest either due to lack ofm otivation, bad luck, bad choices or in rare cases systematic oppression end up in the low end or hard jobs
but even "shit jobs" have high pay nowadays, like literally cleaning the sewers and such because otherwise no one would do it
>>286880 well sewrs are a giant corridor of pipes that lead to a deposit where the shit is filtered and the water is purified and released back into the nature septic tanks are small corridors of pipes that lead to a deposit, which is then emptied every now and then and taken to the purification facility same thing, smaller scale
FormerRei@mobile
>>286880 Septic tanks have catastrophic failures more often
sk
>>286884 Oh that's true, actually I guess we'd probably have sewers in communism
We've got like, civilization around agriculture here I mean right here we don't have a sewer, but I'm actually not sure about the rest of the area We've got manholes all over the fuckin' place, so maybe there is a sewer system we're just not connected to in this house
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286890 that is just the rain sewer stuff different thing
Oh then you just most likely have an old house it afterall does c >>286894 huh weird development from local planning
sk
New, actually
sk
It's about as old as I am, anyway Used to be a playground
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>286895 so yeah that explains it whoever built it, didn't want to spend the money to get the sewer system connected septic tank is cheaper by far maybei f there were like 10-20 houses built there the city/building/whatever entity would have done it
sk
That'd be my dad hence it being as old as I am, roughly
sk
>>286897 It's in like a standard-ass suburban area Like americana kinda shit,
There are houses here in similiar areas that do septic tank too just because they didn't want to spendm oney on connecting the sewers sometimes it is individual decision sometimes it is community decision of the local land owners and sometimes the local government just goes "dudes we build sewers there so just wait a month or two before staring constructing your shit" to get everyone connected
Keep them running basically if you enve notice something is wrong they do an excellent job >>286903 yeah remove blockages in the bigger pipes pump smaller ones dry with those vacuum car thingies pump cars or pump stuff into them to get them running and just generally see if they need renovation or repairs or replcing and also kill rats
FormerRei@mobile
>>286904 They also remove garbage (that isn't neccesarily blockage) and often find weird stuff.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
yeah they genrally also scan the places for stuff that can't be dealt with at the purification facilities like metals and all dat shit
sk
I wonder if a lot of that could be made less unpleasant, if nothing else >>286910 Well I mean, identifying and clearing blockages seems like something a robot could be programmed to do periodically
yup all microchip stuff are scarce as fuck for example proper silicon and other rare metals
FormerRei@mobile
>>286918 Pure silicon is refined from sand They've been doing it for over 40 years That's the reason the even use silicon in the first place, because its much easier to get than the other semiconductors (as in literal semiconductor elements).
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
I mean NK became hot topic now after theyd iscoverted that 5-10 trillion dollar deposit of that rare metal stuff underneath it that every modern tech uses
You will learn about the resources of the world and thus why some of them are so scarce, expensive and hard to procude and so on >>286928 and not just building MAINTAINING a human gets a cut, he heals and that is it a robot gets a broken part you need to replace it
sk
>>286928 Right, but if the resources themselves aren't scarce, that expense is pretty artificial
FormerRei@mobile
>>286932 Yeah I guess if you don't want to pay the people who design it or test it or assemble it or manufacture the parts used in it or program it ...
Also do you really think the world could just poop out some 100 million or more and practically atleast 20 million in replacemnts parts yearly to just keep sewers clean? we'd run out even by recycling the broken parts in quite quickly of th material we need to build that shti
>>286933 The people assembling these things are likely already severely underpaid, so that's not really the problem
FormerRei@mobile
>>286935 Assembly is different People who assemble shit like robots aren't severely underpaid That's more of a thing in consumer electronics, which robots are not.
And once again robotics is a merger of many fields that all require that good old 5-15 years of practice before they can even enter the field though that shti does have more attraction >>286938 Oh why do you need to learn to break code and continue learning new programming languages why do you need to be exper in math, physics, and all dat shit to figure out how to make the robotic parts function as an engineer oh why do you need to be expert in maths, physics and all dat shit in different ways to figure out how to build the robotic parts as an engineer
sk
>>286937 That's dumb as hell though Why do you need that much time?
Yeah but like people do this shit for fun though Even today
Like literally as a hobby ON TOP of their severely underpaid job
FormerRei@mobile
>>286940 Yeah, but the robot I make at home is no where near reliable enough to sell and support as a product
sk
>>286941 Right, but if you cooperated with a ton of people who had all the time in the world to do this thing they really enjoy, you could definitely make it real good
Oh yeah speaking of resources funny anecdote from middle school came to mind
during wood/metalwork classes in 8th grade, I had a big ambition of building a miniature windmill so I dug up blueprints for one gained permission to do it started owrking built all the parts I could and then went to the teacher "teach I need this and this kinda shit to build the inner workings, could you order this up?" "sure" he says and then 2 months later I still don't have the parts but just a partly assembled windmill outershell was kinda pissed, but I still got a good grade cause the teacher fucked up
FormerRei@mobile
>>286955 There's a very large amount of reliability testing involved in releasing products
sk
>>286957 It's a good idea to make sure the thing works We wanna eliminate the need for someone to do this shitty job, after all, we can't have the machine break all the time
FormerRei@mobile
>>286961 I think you are misunderstanding something, parts of the machine will definitely wear out, we need to make sure that they last long enough and are easy to replace This is a thing in engineering that I never (not that im an engineer lol) really understood until late highschool. But providing support for a product is part of the process of releasing a product
Actually is there anything we could do to improve conditions for surgeons, since we're in that sorta area? Cause surgeons are pretty important
Like I dunno what other than the obvious makes a surgeon's life stressful Like you have a life in your hands, that's responsibility, man But it also seems like a cool job, I think
>make more surgeons by making them less qualified >>286969 there really is nothing you can do just fund education more to get more people in the high fields so the work amount is divided between the increased people >>286985 being a teacher doesn't cost anyone lives if they fail to make billy learn 1+1=2 I mean billy is fucked up becasue not smart, but he ain't dead
>>286987 and then you need more of them 10 surgeons for one operation that would normally take 2 the more cooks the worse the soup applies to medicine the most
sk
>>286988 I don't think all surgery is the same Is it? Like there's a bunch of different parts of the body
>>286989 No, but the basics are the same and the specialised fields already exist anyhow you have heart surgeons and brain surgeons and then just general people who patch you up from the stabbing wound
>>286991 adn they cost like 20 surgeons to get the reason they are required, is because the specialised and top surgeons are so rare, that you can't exactly fly them around the world constantly as the need requires so they invented those to patch that need
The tech is, but the production costs are simply too high not to mention added manpower costs of said production and then just general "high tech costs much t. greedy person"
sk
What greedy person? Would some asshole be standing there with a gun or something demanding a toll to make them?
Well in your communism utopia there aren't people in my opinion enough drivent o even have a robotics field to produce that high stuff not to mention the bureaucracy to keep that production running or administration so it wouldn't exist there
Why's the buereacracy needed though, I don't understand >>287013 Dude the people making them, themselves, might be at the receiving end, I think they'll try to make sure it works properly
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
basic quality control is bureaucracy for example
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
all paperwork is bureaucracy
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
tracking exchange of services, goods, what was shipped in from that production facility and what was assembled and shipped out where is bureaucracy
sk
I guess you'd need a few people to keep track of stuff, yeah But that's legitimate work
It's not really buereacracy, they're just keeping track of stuff
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
so there might not be bureaucrauts but then you'd have the same problem as the "no janitors" thing
>>287018 bureaucracy is legitimate work we just have made too much of it at this point so now we need bureaucracy to keep the basic levels of bureaucracy to work and bureaucracy to keep those bureaucracy systems to work and ad infinitum
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>287018 that is the essense of bureaucracy and administrative work keeping track of things
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
that is how money was invented too to keep easier track of change of goods
sk
But these damn things aren't gonna be sold We're gonna use 'em
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
they still are moved a lot and require a lot of stuff from various places to be taken to several locations to be refined to the state they can be brought to one place where they can be asembled >>287026 No i am just saying that it is much more simple even in communistic utopia to keep the logistics as small as possible and making the parts and bits in as close to their say in terms of metals mining facility is the smartest way to do things
sk
>>287025 Is that because it's cheaper to get it from other countries, or just cause like, the US or something doesn't have it?
FormerRei@mobile
>>287021 It's not ad infinitum, there's a certain point like a sort of critical mass where adding bureau cratic positions creates more work
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>287027 EU and Finland went past that mass ages ago we are Bureaucracy Singularity
FormerRei@mobile
>>287030 I'll bet Most large countries end up hitting tgat There's even some decent sort of scientific articles about the phenomenon
>>287031 the bigger the nation, the more regulations, the thighter you control those regulations and of course social network those create large bureaucratic needs social wellfare states have big ones, but finland is just absurd at this and since bureaucrauts are the ones who'd fire the bureaucrauts in order to make the system more efficient no one ever gets fired
>>287035 no I mean the making is expensive as fuck even if you have no money or such concepts just the resources and the manpower required and once again a small part gets broken it is real hard to fix
>>287039 Is that cause it was explicitly designed to be hard to fix, or just cause it's hard to fix these things? Cause the former is the case for a LOT of shit
FormerRei@mobile
>>287041 It's hard to make really complicated products that are also really easy to fix
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>287041 dude it is not consumer good conspiracy here it is just simply so complicated machinery
biggest problem of say germany who made really good but complicated machines, was that those were a fucking nightmare on the field one part gets broken and the tank is busted and needs quite a skilled mechanic to fix it not to mention the parts that are hard as fuck to produce and then ship to the front
It'd still really reduce the amount of work needed though, wouldn't it? And make things easier for the surgeons
FormerRei@mobile
>>287046 No It just outsources the work to a surgeon somewhere else. Plus you need people to set up the machine
sk
Someone could probably like use one of those segway robots with the screen and camera to guide people setting them up I dunno if you know what I'm talking about here, I've seen the damn thing in like a few TV shows and one documentary at some point
>>287046 yeah you still need that top surgeon to operate the machine simply said the machinery exists so the top surgeons don't need to fly over constantly to some facilities to perform those surgeons when they can do some of the work through the robot and leavet he rest to the local staff
even if you have a machine in every hospital you still need those top surgeons to operate them
Like wouldn't you have way more surgeons cause it's such leisurely work you can just do from home unless something big comes up? A lot of people today are just not even able to get the education they want, too, so that's another thing that'd at least pump the numbers a little Born in the wrong place? Tough shit, dude
>>287066 tht just means the specialists and even then they would need them on scene for bigger operations you do know some whit takes like 20 hours to do
Yeah but more surgeons would mean each one has to do way less overall And a bunch could be done from home, it's not like we need to restrict the machine to only the very best of the best Why have the surgeon come over to the clinic if he can just log into his machine and do the thing from home Doesn't even need to put pants on
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
still doesn't solve the "long time required to even get to the field"
I think the carrot should be the work itself Cause you enjoy it, or at least want to do it because it benefits your community Or just another human being, community or not
it isn't shitty atleast here it just is demanding as fuck and especially on the self-discipline part and best way to motivate self is thinking of the carrot
Or we have different top fielders, who for some reason had difficulties earlier in school, got demotivated and thought they couldn't be surgeons, or whatever
There's also the thing with uni right, you need credits or whatever? Like doing random other junk just to meet some arbitrary bar of entry into stuff?
We could even just let them ditch all the stuff they're not interested in Like fuck algebra, dude, if you're gonna just work a field you don't give a shit about algebra ever
>>287098 90-95% of your credits usually are simply the shit you actually need to learn the less % of the credits you earn not b // if % of the credits you earn is // fuck brain try
If your credits are say only 60% in the category that are actually required in your field and rest are filler your course most likely is quite carbage
We could even just let people skip classes they don't wanna go to, as long as they show they are qualified at the end >>287107 Yes, TN, everything you don't force people to do means they become worse people
>>287106 good part of the educational process is just stress handling also if you can't handle the stress of studying for the field, you most likely can't handle the field sure it is differently stressful or maybe even less on average but on a job when a real big stress thing hits you can't just say "okay will do it tomorro" nah especially with surgeons
We can give people easy access to mental health professionals, and even let people just dip out of school for a while and then come back when they're ready
In your world all top fielders are 40 when they reach working quality and by that time, they aren't ever going to be that good at it since best part of learning /best part of their mental capacity is behind them
sk
They can study faster if they wanna too >>287127 Well if they wanna be a surgeon, I assume they wanna be one as soon as possible
So once again there is nothing to gain from becoming surgeon except your own dreams and ambitions but a fucking big hurle of 5-15 years of education and pracitciing for the job between just you and your dream job and then the dream job even at best conditions is taxing and stressful as hell and you gain nothing more out of it than the self-satisfaction of doing it
sk
I don't know why that's worse than doing something for money that you hate 8 hours a day
"why would you spend 8 hours doing something unpleasant and you hate" it just has developed that some low qualification works outearn some mid to high qualification jobs because otherwise no one seeks to do them
also just because they are low or no qualification jobs doesn't mean you don't need quite a lot of injob training to do them
they did a good job untill there was nothing for them to do and then they just began to ruin shit by building too much social network in a system that can't really run it
>>287156 yup but you see a janitor spot not being filled just means dirty floors a sewer maintainer not being filled, means overflowing sewers and also the state employes them
>>287159 >>287158 It just is that if they don't do their jobs all hell breaks loose and shit hits the fan quite literally
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
One of the best earners in finland are cargo unloaders and such harbour workers they have a strong union and also if they don't do their job no foreign trade
oh yeah, they're definitely union >“How could the workers who do something wrong get penalized and then people in charge do something wrong and nothing happens? That’s a double standard,” said sanitation workers union president Harry Nespoli.
We "sorta" do that but very rarely and in very specific situations. If you're painting "studying" with a large brush, that's essentially what school scholarships and research grants are. If you're talking about learning a trade, we've got apprenticeships. There are also still people who are paying other people who are moderately good at learning how to code to learn Java.
well if everyone quits after 5-10 years no there aren't you are speaking of so idealistic situations and utopic world that it doesn't even really matter your communistic world only exists if the world has completely converted into it
>>287173 Why would they quit though? It's a cool job, man
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
I don't think it is a cool job and like everyone on this board who works a job they'd do something much less stressful and tasking if it gave them the same benefits
But it's stressful mostly cause there's not a lot of 'em though?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>operating on someone's body to save their life, one mistake and they die all because of you is only stressful because there is lack of people doing it
>>287180 Right but you have to do less of that if there's more people who could do it instead of you
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
you add 5 surgeons operating on one patient and you also about 5 times the chance of fucking it up
sk
>>287183 WHY On earth Is every single possible sentence I say the worst fucking idea you can think of that vaguely fits? "More surgeons who could do it? That means FIFTY FUCKING FAGGOTS STANDING AROUND A TABLE CHOPPING WITH AXES"
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>287182 so there are more surgeons so you just don't simplyneed to work that makes sense oh wait when you do work it is still stressful as fuck
>>287183 That wouldn't be how it allocates in medical. Having more doesn't mean you throw all of them at a single patient, it means you can handle multiple patients more efficiently. You have 6 surgeons and multiple assistants for each and you can handle six surgeries a lot better than one surgeon. >>287191 Depends on the field, really. If it's not something I care about, I wouldn't go into it. At such an equalized level of living standards, it's not so much that I'd choose whichever is less stress but whichever is more fulfilling. Less stress is usually more fulfilling though.
>>287188 Well would you do high stress, high skill, high required years of training, studying, practice if the actual benefits both socially and economically are the same as low stress, low skill, no years of training etc job?
>>287191 I'd be fucking miserable doing that Holy shit
sk
Like oh man I could be like, a professor or something, but I'm gonna work fucking retail and waste my life away doing something I have ABSOLUTELY no fucking interest in doing
if everyone can and would seek the best possible jobs that suit them since they can who works the jobs that aren't enjoyable that are menial that still require doing
>>287194 You can't really say there's no "social gain" from doing it because that's not something we can control. You can do things to wages and work hours, sure. But the social gain is dependent on the kind of work done and the value that people get from it. People would still respect and value doctors higher than most other fields because their jobs are highly desirable in society. They help you stay alive. Sanitation workers probably wouldn't be as highly regarded but there's still respect there and you'd notice the lack thereof in the case that they were absent.
sk
Why do people even do volunteer shit, man It benefits you the same as sitting at home all day and looking at the TV
>>287199 volunteer is 1 day per month or year not 8h/365
sk
Well why on earth would you work 8 hours every day? Why would you work nearly that much? >>287203 There's literally no reason whatsoever to do unnecessary stuff just to be able to say you worked for 8 hours
This is nonsense. There's a lot of stuff to be done, that we aren't doing. There's a lot of stuff that we're doing that we really don't need. It's literally both.
>>287214 No you don't understand It's not a thing we're doing because we're like, bad at management It's literally necessary It's not avoidable Waste MUST be produced In aggregate
Add to that every single bullshit job All the shit we could automate if it wasn't 'expensive' >>287220 Oh man I really like this so this is great
Right, so you have a population, right Let's say you have only one person who owns property, right, it's a farm and it makes food He's hired uh, hold on Uh, there's the dude and 10 other people for simplicity's sake, let's say he hires 9, right? I mean fuck the last guy, but he actually CAN'T hold a job while profit is maintained so tough luck I guess Anyway He pays the 9 workers $50 each per day because easy number Each worker has to eat, you know, a tenth of the food, cause the capitalist must also eat right and he doesn't wanna die on his own farm So What is the actual ABSOLUTE minimum cost of a tenth of the food? $50 Any lower and he goes into the red, that's not good at all ...but what if he charges more? Oh no, now they can't afford the food, certainly not all of them If he charges like, shit I dunno $55 for a tenth of that food, 8 of those workers can eat. The rest is waste He CAN NOT sell it, it isn't physically possible for him to sell it at that price, and if he starts lowering prices after a while then you know, he doesn't profit >>287233 You legitimately don't understand It isn't a matter of expansion, he can't NOT make waste If he just gives it away why would anyone even work, he has to burn it
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
he hires the tenth guy to pull a cart, expands his fields produces more and sells the crops in the neighbouring village that lacks enough grain
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
I think I get an anerysm for trying to understand you
sk
No you don't get it Expanding the population doesn't fucking solve it Now you just have two villages that in aggregate MUST create waste He doesn't anymore, but that just means a capitalist in the other village is
It's perfectly capable for A capitalist to be waste free Capitalism CAN not It isn't an option There is nothing that can be done so long as capitalism is around to eliminate waste
sk
spoiler: this is why fascism is so militantly expansionist It just can't fucking sustain itself
I think I am having a disconnect around >Each worker has to eat, you know, a tenth of the food, cause the capitalist must also eat right and he doesn't wanna die on his own farm So What is the actual ABSOLUTE minimum cost of a tenth of the food? $50 So, he's spending $450 on labor and then what happens to the food? Is he selling it all for 500 or is he ohhhhh So he takes from his own.
sk
I mean regular capitalism can't either, but you know fascism kinda cranks everything to 11
sk
>>287241 Yeah, capitalism needs someone to compete with and crush Is needed World domination is a bad thing in capitalism
I mean technically that's not a necessity since you know a capitalist doesn't need to use his own products But that's not a solution, I just included it because I was typing fast
But here's the kicker right If he sells it for more, he NEEDS to have another capitalist in the system He NEEDS another stock of workers that isn't his to profit, that's obvious sure but this keeps happening on and on Now there's two capitalists, and both \\\ one of them NEEDS another market or he's going into the red Now there's THREE
Capitalism is expansionist by necessity, but once it gets to the end, the system will fucking eat itself from the bottom up and that's what we're seeing in the US
oh okay, I see now. All things being equal keeps it stable. But aiming for a profit will cut people out. I just think it's weird to call that waste though. It's more like... how there's no perpetual motion systems because you have to use energy somewhere.
sk
Yeah, communism is sustainable provided you don't run out of resources, and at that point any system is fucked
>>287252 It's waste because if he is to make any profit it has to be thrown away I mean he can GIVE it away, but if he just gave away everything he overproduced, why would anyone buy anything?
sk
It's not really as much capitalism as it's anything with a profit motive
>>287261 Wait I think THAT'S where my disconnect is. I understand that there's a profit and that there's a loss (the capitalist and the workers, respectively) but what is being WASTED? Oh okay.
Or I mean that example is a bit wonky cause there's the 9th worker too who... kinda has to starve with profit I mean that's true, but it makes the example a bit hard to understand as waste
OH YEAH I was gonna get into that 10th guy The unemployed guy There's a reason he's unemployed, and that is the capitalist benefits more from squeezing his current workers harder than he does by removing the only thing preventing them from demanding higher wages You can't have full employment in capitalism You have necessary waste, and necessary unused labor Because if everyone's employed, wages will steadily climb to the point where no profit is made, cause the workers are now in control (unless the government comes in and... solves that)
sk
Now it's not like all capitalists are cynical like that, but there's a reason unemployment seems to magically be stable at like 2-5%
>>287273 I'm familiar with the unemployment necessity. I think waste is harder to understand in this. Like, I can understand the progressive fall off though. The guy with 50 might not starve, he can just buy from a place that sells to 40. And it spirals to a bottom.
Also, your employer controls your life That's like a side issue entirely, but if your employer disagrees with a thing you took part in, legal or not, moral or not... he can starve you
Well the prices do go downwards But so do wages as a direct result Because the capitalist is in control and he wants his profit margin Fuck you, you just make the things, he OWNS you
Well the labor is the work, and is what's really 'wasted' Like the food is waste, too, but
I mean it's both, but the actual problem isn't that the product wasn't used, the problem from a human standpoint is work was done that wasn't needed
Even if the capitalist went 0profit in terms of currency, and hired all 10, they still need to work more than if he had worked too Of course he's not gonna, because he can use the police to force them to They have to eat, so they have to work to buy food, or steal food Stealing is handled by the cops, so.... they have to work It's not 'slavery' because you can technically choose to starve to death
Oh and he either stole the land or bought it from someone in a chain stretching back to someone stealing it So he doesn't have a real right to it anymore than you to, other than 'tradition'
sk
That's not an America thing, by the way "give the land back to the indians" is bullshit no less than him keeping it Because by whose fucking authority was it THEIRS to begin with? They just claimed it
This is why I don't subscribe to the idea that the bourg are class conscious by the way You'd NEED to be a despicable human being to be class conscious and profit And I don't think the bourg are evil, I just think what they're doing is evil because it's creating death where there doesn't need to be any
Iunno if anyone else is still in this thread or not, but this whole thing is why I don't see exports as trade The only thing you ever actually export is poverty
sk
And this one's a bit of a harsh truth, but landlords are arguably the worst of all because they don't even produce anything
And of course, the presence of that waste generates poverty, which I mentioned, but poverty creates even more problems And who gets the punishment when someone steals to achieve a standard of living they're entitled to based on the amount they put into the system in labor? Jail But not for the one who created the problem. We jail the victim
But that's fine I guess because how on earth could human beings possibly cooperate on increasing the standard of living for everyone across the board, provided they had nothing else they were held at gunpoint to do? It's not as though human beings do this a LOT on their free time or anything
People come home from 8 hours sitting in a fucking assembly line for a wage worth less than the market value of the product they generate, for someone else, making sure to act in a certain way and not say anything that gets taken the wrong way by either their employer or someone their employer likes, getting yelled at for not generating enough money for the faggot who's sitting at home playing video games, they're stressed out and fucking hate their miserable life And they STILL do productive things with the remaining hours together with other people. Not even to sell it for money a lot of the time, just because they want to make a thing or help someone. People run soup kitchens and food banks out of their own already-deducted wages and charity to provide for those who are SYSTEMATICALLY denied the ability to work for a living
And TN fucking sits here and says human nature is to kill everyone else and take their shit even if you have no reason to It gets my fucking blood boiling to see all the really good, cooperative and self-sacrificing acts of people who are already oppressed themselves, for which they expect NOTHING in return, they don't even demand a thank you or anything, and then see people say human beings would just sit at home and play video games if they were allowed to just... not do shit they don't want to do
Humans are good god fucking damn it They're really good guys And anarchists are LITERALLY the best of all human beings on the planet, bar not a single fucking one
Oh yeah since I'm a bit mad already Here's another great thing with capitalism: it pits us not only against eachother, but against progress itself Automation in capitalism is a THREAT to the worker. The worker in capitalism will actively oppose the full automation of the job they absolutely HATE doing, because if they are replaced by a machine they DIE
It's a fucking evil system And if communism can't work, we don't deserve to exist as a species
sk
And this is why theft of stuff in shops and whatever, as well as outright destroying bourgie personal property is justifiable and good
And also the idea that price gouging is bad because it's an unfair price is kinda dumb because if the price of a product is even a little above what the workers who made it were paid for the time spent, it's unfair. And that's 100% of products not made by some nonprofit entity There is only one moral course of action in a capitalism, and that's seeking its abolishment.
If you think it can't work, then either come up with a better idea or come to terms with being complacent with a system built on human death and suffering on a global scale. Every fucking war since the dawn of capitalism has been in search of profit (well that's not entirely true, but it's certainly been a major factor in just about all of them)
sk
Which, and goddamnit I'm ranting Is why "communism killed 200 gorillion" is a fucking bullshit statement Capitalism killed 9 million last year from starvation ALONE That's JUST starvation That isn't counting America's bullshit, it's not counting illness not related to starvation, it's not counting robberies that ended badly. Capitalism doesn't send a guy to kill you outright, it just sets a guy in front of the food with a gun and tells you to starve or get shot, so it's your fault if you get shot and it's your fault if you starve because you didn't make someone else take your place
It's also acting like the people barely scraping by, living their life on the fucking street and begging for some other oppressed human being to be comradely enough to spare some of the little money they have, are somehow "living the fucking good life" It's just straight up ignoring every single non-fatal act of violence because Stalin had some fucking petty bourgies who burned their own food reserves shot I'm not even a fucking tankie and those specific deaths I'll stand behind Those were not human beings who deserved to live
sk
Anyway it gets me mad but at least I have the internet and a goddamn smartphone so it's all good
