You came here for gold The wall will not hold This day was promised to me The Gods are my shield My fate has been sealed Lightning and javelins fly Soon many will fall We are storming the wall Stones fall snow from the sky We will pay with our glory In the fire of battle Zeus today is mine
I hear the silent voices I cannot hide The Gods leave no choices so we all must die Oh Achilles let my arrows fly Into the wind, where eagles cross the sky Today my mortal blood will mix with sand it was Foretold I will die by my hand Into Hades my soul descends
TN
lol lyric pasta is wrong there, "i will die by thy hand"
I thought +spd/-def would be bad on Myrrh but it's turned out okay Maybe it's because I left Fury on her but I don't expect to find many people with both 36+ speed and 31+ def I'd still prefer +def though or +res Choking on dust
it's a shame that I missed out on the Warriors farm part 2 I would have had enough SP to just toss Berkut's Lance+ (RES++) on Gwen by now. Rolling Green is nice. I hope I fail to get another Myrrh and grab a Hector instead.
Kirara 🚗
are wa debiru debiru maaaan
Anno
hello stranger this is an english anime imageboard
oh trains operate thank god they aren't part of sak >>405888 changes to unemployment stuff that hasalreadypassed so basically sore loser spite strike by biggest union here
Anno
>>405889 spoiled shit gonna shut down public transit and endanger people for dumb shit
TN
>>405890 basically quite many hate some of the unions for having so much influence and abusing it each time they might even lose 1 cent out
TN
coincidentally the dock worker union has never had not have yearly increase in wages
>>405896 No, see, you don't go on strike before the vote. You might march before, but you don't go on strike before. But the laws here and there are different. Here, for every day you go on strike, workers lose like two days pay and the union gets fined 1 million.
TN
>>405897 once the decision is done it won't be revokef and even if next gov revokes it, it will take years for the bureacracy to change their actions are 100% futile dickery to virtue signal "we are on your side so be a member"
TN
not to mention sak and sdp party are too co-aligned with many members of obe being influential on the other the union is basically also a political party, the third biggest obe oh and it is biggest union here too
I can't remember ever using it for bottleopening or anything not that you had those bottlesi n the army or maybe it was just galil rk is a good gun and it is a simple fun name "assault rifle" rynnäkkökivääri
>>405926 almost all guns have always had very utilitarian names aside from russian and british, which were typically named for their inventor or manufacturer but the AR-15 is just the 15th rifle prototype from Armalite (hence the AR) and the M4 is just the 4th Carbine designated in the M series after we switched from dates to hard numbers with the M1 Carbine in WW2
Cause that is universal in ANY product made in finland like our biggest machinery producing company is named "machine" kone
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and nokia is named after the town it was based on btw there are actually two nokia companies right now Nokia the former phone company, who now deals in servers and networking and Nokia tires the actual original company that Nokia IT company split off of when they decided to go their own way and also Nokia phones are made by not nokia but some other finnish company
Maria
I like that the romaji for the Japanese word for army is gun
baynge
>>405933 well "rifle" is still just "rifle" which is basically just "gun"
>>405937 btw have you ever dreamed of shooting a bunch of russians with an anti-air machinegun shooting explosive rounds?
baynge
no i don't really like the idea of that kind of killing and i definitely don't dream of combat with a rival force that is a concept to be fearful of, but prepared for
Hello! I'm done with my work now. I've been writing since noon.
>>405943 I haven't seen that either but I've always heard good things about it.
baynge
Alamo Drafthouse (who i think has theaters in a lot of cities now, not just in Texas?" )
anyways they love to play older movies, especially cult classics, and i guess this qualifies as that i'm looking forward to some movie-themed cocktails too nothing better than a theater that brings food and alcohol to you during the show
>>405946 Like, me personally? and how can you be an anarchist and a landlord
>>405950 oh lol i'm not really dsa though anarchists have organizations too and they've even technically had political parties like in spain in the 30s
>>405947 I'm pretty good! I had fun working today.
sk
Cause you're in the DSA
baynge
>>405947 i just woke up like an hour ago and i made a cheese and egg crossiant and i am super comfy
no, I'm actually probably some kind of centrist governments are responsible for almost everything humanity has done that's worth a damn without order, we'd be no better than artistic monkeys
Yeah I mean the more authoritarian left is big on government But the state isn't smaller in either case, it just serves different interests
The state that protects private interests completely without any compromise whatsoever is no smaller than the one where all production is nationalized
baynge
the right has always been about business over government, and individuals over all except the business usually wins but the right has generally been more or less wary of the state across it's own right-wing spectrum
baynge
still, it is thanks to the state that i don't have a bunch of incensed radicals rioting through my neighborhood and it's rather nice here
Kirara 🚗
>>405974 i don't really agree i judge the size of the government by the impact it has in your life
in america right now i can still do basically whatever i want despite how much oppression there is
in the "ideal" marxist-leninist state, i don't have even that much freedom
>>405977 Consider this: Literally everything the cops do is the state, and that includes private property
baynge
in the ideal marxist-leninist state, the time we spend on the internet playing video games and reading imageboards does not exist, because that could be time spent working for the community
It's just outsourcing who manages it, and for what reason >>405980 Yeah I said it's no smaller, they're both the same in that sense because in both cases the state is the one controlling everything
It's just giving the control to an autocrat
Kirara 🚗
>>405979 basically this i can't do whatever i want because i have to work i get my needs supplied to me and i can survive without much strife unlike under capitalism but i'm sacrificing my personal freedom and individual autonomy for that
baynge
capitalism is literally the only reason we get to play video games
baynge
communism is like setting life to the easy setting but you don't get any of the powerful unlocks capitalism is like setting life to the hardest setting but you get the most unlocks
Kirara 🚗
it's that iphone setting that makes it so you only have like five apps you can touch so your grandpa doesn't destroy his phone
Anno
>>405982 And if you want to live within a society, any kind of society, you will never, ever have absolute individual autonomy anyway. The only way that exists is if you go full-hermit out in the middle of bumfuck, nowhere.
baynge
/moe/ literally would have no place existing
baynge
CS:GO would also not be able to exist
Kirara 🚗
>>405986 if i'm sacrificing personal autonomy as a choice, it's different it goes from being forced to participate under threat of death to being willing through free association i can freely associate with anyone i wish there's no obligation to participate in anything i don't approve of
baynge
the entire recreation industry would be forfeit
baynge
music, video games, sports even if they existed, would only be state-run programs for morale boosting
Even if that was true, and it's not because that's fucking ridiculous, it is preferable to capitalism
baynge
if i told you that there wouldn't be anyone to draw anime shotas for you to jerk off to anymore becasue the state decided they didn't contribute to the cause
>>405989 I don't think this is something which is either/or though. It's a sliding scale that sure, can go hard in one direction of the scale and some times the other. But being in a society is all about compromising compulsive giving up of some amount of individual autonomy for the sake of the benefits.
>>405997 okay, but i'm saying i'm okay with sacrificing personal autonomy as long as i only do so willingly
Anno
>>406003 Yeah but where does willingly end and forcefully begin. At gunpoint? At legal prosecution? I willingly pay taxes (or try to, at least) because I like the gains I get in my region of the world for them. But I can't really unwillingly do it either because I'd get prosecuted for it.
I just don't think the line between what is willfully given up or forcefully surrendered is carved in stone.
>>406004 For example, no matter what I do, I cannot withdraw from society unless I'm rich. There's nowhere I can go live my life how I want to unless I'm rich enough to buy a ton of land and just live there alone. Even then, I can't withdraw from society because I become a criminal if I don't pay taxes on my land. If I go live in a national forest or something, I become a criminal. I have no choice but to participate in present society whether I want to or not. If I participate, I can't live however I want. If I don't participate, I end up in jail and still can't live however I want. Basically, we have a system which forces you to participate in it. If you don't like the way things are done, you have to do things like that anyways.
I think people should have a choice whether or not they want to participate and in what they participate in. If people want to go live under a government, great, go ahead and do that. But I think that people shouldn't have to do that. People should be able to live in autonomous communities where they participate willingly rather than by force.
>>406005 I don't really think, with current technological levels, a society like that can exist. A society needs (ideally, at least) power and water and other infrastructure, which requires people to run it and maintain it. If you don't produce that power within the self-contained community, you need to take it from the outside, at which you start dealing with diplomatic negotiations. And by power I also mean the other infrastructure.
Those more contained communities might have worked back when expectations of quality of life was much lower, but we're not quite at the point where modular communities of our current existence can sustain themselves independently.
oh boy, another big heating bill considering the power went out and i went heatless for a day at 0 degrees i'm a little frustrated it's more than i can afford i didn't even use the heating much except to warm it up after the power was out
The luxury to even consider roughing it and not taking part in society is one that only comes at a level in which your survival is safe enough that you can consider not having the choice to participate in society.
I don't think fulfillment is something that needs to be quantified. In fact, the obsession society has with making things quantifiable is a very bad thing in my opinion. Not everything can be quantified, but that doesn't mean we should just ignore it.
I'm not saying everyone should have to live like that or that everyone wants to. I'm saying I should have the right to live like that if I want to. People should have the right to live lives they think will be fulfilling as long as they're not doing it at the expense of other people.
Anno
rights are inherently at the expense of other people as they're things which have to be protected there's an investment in them
They have to be protected from people that don't respect your rights and that's fine, that's only at the expense of people that are giving you the right to protect yourself. People that don't go around harming people aren't having rights at the expense of other people.
And I'd rather protect my rights from some guy that doesn't want to respect them than that guy and a government.
>>406016 I'm not sure I follow. Can you explain what you mean?
>>406015 Well my meaning really hits on two different areas.
The first is that it's much easier to become a survivalist and live on the land alone nowadays than it was in the past. It's easier for a modern person to acquire survival skills than the average serf in the year 1400, because it's easier to learn stuff. If any of us were going to learn high level survival skills, we'd read about it. Not only do we have the advantage of easy acquisition of training materials, we also have the advantage of actually being able to read. Moreover, we have access to better tools and stuff to take with us.
The second is the relative peace of the world. If you tried to go live on the land in feudal Europe, the chances of having someone come along and kill you and take your stuff would be much higher than it is today. People had to band together for survival i n a more pressing way back then. Kingdoms weren't just about kings being power hungry dictators, kings were hard men that protected their people from other kingdoms.
It's interesting that you're acting like the only people that have ever survived were Europeans. There are a lot of different methods of banding together and surviving and Europeans probably had one of the worst ways and consistently came up with bad ways to do it.
Okay? But that doesn't have anything to do with wanting to be able to live like that. Is it easier now? Sure. Once you do it, what's the problem with whether or not it's easier? In the drop-in-drop-out society I'm talking about, you can do it and then stop if you don't like it, too.
Society is the way it is now because evil people took control of everything. There are tons /// were tons of happy groups of people outside of Europe that banded together to survive and felt that their lives were fulfilling. Serfdom? That's nothing like what I'm talking about. Not even remotely close.
My argument here is that I should be allowed to go live like that if I want to. I shouldn't be a criminal for doing it. Is that something you disagree with? Should I be a criminal for wanting to live my life in a way that harms nobody?
If society only exists because you are holding every single human under the gun, then maybe society shouldn't exist.
sk
Like I don't understand the question "what if everyone wanted to just die in the wilderness?" I mean that'd be the end of the species I suppose but so what if that's what everyone wanted?
>>406027 Oh, I see. So what you're saying is that people shouldn't be allowed to live as they please because society would force them into participating in society?
>>406029 Hmm, not really. I'm not really making heavy commentary on what people should or shouldn't be allowed to do. Obviously, I want people to be as free as possible. I just think that the world isn't a nice place like that. Protection is one of the primary functions of society. You have to pay into that, unfortunately.
If society can only exist as long as people are being forced to participate, then it shouldn't exist at all.
I don't want protection from society if I'm dropping out of society. It's unreasonable to force protection on people. Protection from what? The thing I'd need protection from is society.
Besides, "what if everyone x" is a meaningless hypothetical If everyone wanted to live and die in the wilderness, no societal structure could hinder us in any capacity
>>406037 No, but I'm not looking for society as we know it to protect me from them.
If I'm part of a society, it should be one that I approve of and enjoy being a part of. I should be able to freely associate. So if I do want protection from barbarians, I can live within a society that I am choosing to be part of rather than one I'm being forced into participating in.
>>406039 But you're just going to get killed by barbarians if you don't want protection from them.
>>406038 Well, the point is that no one really wants to pay into society. It's not like I want to pay taxes. But if no one has to do it, no one will do it. Then everyone will die to the barbarians.
>>406041 If you were going to go live in the woods in the US, though, you'd still benefit from the borders kept by the military. That's kinda part of why I was saying it's a luxury that hasn't even been something someone could think about until recently. The world is a lot more peaceful than it was.
hmmm I wouldn't even say that I'm trying to convince you of anything. I just am not sure about that statement.
but it may just be a difference in values. I value comfort and living with a basic level of dignity above all other things. People's lives were also much mroe violent back then, don't you agree?
But then you can choose to be part of a society that secures that for you Others having the ability to opt out doesn't make you unable to work together with those who share your values Most people want a society that secures life and comfort for everyone within it, that's the entire anarchist project
I mean if you want to go off into the woods and stuff I guess you should be able to do that but I can't really empathize with why you'd want to do that.
It's not a perspective I can really understand. >>406053 It's on my backlog right now I'm DDLC because that's the hot shit
Maria
Tony you ever play Dreaming Mary? I'm gonna play that
Maria
>>406052 nice how far are you into it? Which girl you aiming for?
>>406051 hm That just doesn't seem right but I'm having trouble putting it into words. I don't think that the option of checking out of society and just living alone is an option that the world will ever provide for people. The world isn't that safe.
>>406050 I think the idea that anarchy can secure life and comfort is extremely idealistic and just blatantly wrong. Anarchy is nothing. Nothing cant' secure anything.
>>406056 Well, again, I'm not saying I want to live alone. Just that people should be able to. Ideally, I want to live in a society that I choose to be a part of. And yes, the world used to provide that option to everyone, especially in the United States, until evil people stole all of the land and made it illegal to live on that land.
>>406065 So we should get rid of the bad stuff and bring back the good stuff. Which is what I want. Freedom without a government that is forcing me into existing in it.
>>406068 We will, eventually. There have been a lot of unfortunate trusn and return to sense in the history of the country. It had been this bad before and we've recovered.
>>406066 It wasn't really a spoiler Man I'd be pissed if I went into ddlc spoiled
>>406069 I don't think it's necessarily the most effective way but a resisting civilian population could totally win. It's hard to occupy and use land when the entire population is molotovving you
>>406072 >>406073 Actually, it's mostly organization. And logistics. I'm sure that TN would agree with me if he were here, logistics is everything in warfare.
>>406076 You need an organization to run large-scale logistics.
>>406071 We've done it before. The evil people will be brought to justice.
Both of which can be done voluntarily You don't need a gun to your dome to do what is needed to protect your freedom
Anno
>>406074 If you think your impossible utopia of a total anarchic world is going to call all the people of a country, for that matter even the majority of people in a country, to action, you've got your head so far up idealism's asshole that there's no real use trying to persuade you otherwise.
sk
Organization can be done voluntarily See: every revolution
>>406079 Well, the instance that I'm most familiar with, which is the harsh conditions that surrounded industrialization around the turn of the century, was turned around by a few landmark court cases. We're in a part of the cycle that has been repeating for awhile, which is kind of a tug-of-war that revolves around how much relative power business and corporations have at any given time.
Right now corporations are super powerful, and people are suffering as a result.
>>406083 Oh, I think you're misunderstanding the time I'm talking about., You're talking about after everything way controlled by the government. I'm talking about before that. During the time I'm talking about, courts didn't mean anything. US courts, at least.
Anno
>>406084 I don't really care what your position is, but your revolution is never going to have the manpower it needs to succeed. And I'm sorry if you believe that, but you'd be spending better time finding other routes to accomplishing things.
"people can only gather information if forced" is just such a ridiculous proposition I don't know if it's worth addressing Or you know, "people can only arm themselves if forced to by others who armed themselves" Both are idiotic
>>406096 The people who will live all around the perfect Utopian world who will never do anything cause they won't be needed to like me what will they be paid in? ai Mean you can't honestly mean equal distribution of resources >>406099 then how wilöl they get food?
>>406098 Well, I think for days like that, we need more frontier. There's always space!
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406105 sulfur is rarest material on earth in terms of it being needed we are aLREADY SHORTG of it sulfur problem will be the biggest problem humanity faces way way way way way way before climate shit will ever become a thing actually
sk
Oh yeah, people in areas who we absolutely need alive We'll starve them that makes sense I'm the brain man
>>406106 There's plenty of room for frontier and there's plenty of space. Or there would be if evil rich people didn't own it all and plan on destroying it for natural resources.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406108 so who transfers food to those areas that are 100% inaccessible with trucks and cars only accessible with planes and ships
>>406111 SO now you need to maintain ships and airplanes at your perfect society
sk
No TN people will decide to not do things that are completely necessary This is just what humans do, they don't do things they see as necessary, because nobody wants to live
But no one gets anything extra for doing anything extra why would anyone ever do anything extra when doing anything extra results you nothing?
sk
NOBODY today gets anything extra for working
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406115 umm wut? My brothert gets 3x the pay for doing his extra hours job my step father gets twice the pay his coworkers gets for doing 1,5 the hours his coworkers do my fathers gets seceral times his inferiors do for well being the project manager and being well the fucking project manager AND HANDLING ALL THE RESPIONSIVBILITY
and so on
sk
3 times what he produces for his boss? That seems like it'd make his boss bankrupt
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
My mother she makes the least but she trains people who make more than she does and she makes shure they get their lessons and she makes sure that people who make more than her are at the places necessary for her "students" to learn what they need to do and so on and so forth
sk
But it'd be cheaper to not pay them, since they're getting more than the value they provide
>>406129 Well, I do understand where you're coming from. I just don't think the world is a nice place. I think human nature is a big obstacle to your ideals. It all sounds nice, though!
You lot sound about your revolutions your communism paradises but to even reach the FOUNDATIONS of such to reach them, you will need millions of death because to work those systems you will need to purge everyone who even slightly disagrees that means me Rika Sammy fucking EVERYONE ONE
and that is the truth and as long as there is someone who disagrees with your system you will need to get rid of them
>>406131 Human nature is only an obstacle in that greedy people naturally refuse to give me the opportunity to live how I wish, seeing me as nothing more than a gear in their machine.
I'm not saying what I want will be a peaceful or easy life.
Or people who produce stuff for film industry they just all get fucke doff? and so now we all need to get resources out of nothing to feed them? what about anime? if everything that isn't necesasry to feed us the humans is scrapped off the anime and vidoe games are fucking useless like so are this kind of internet boards fuck those
Kirara 🚗
what's his longest knife
Maria
Who else plays with knives while cooking
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>>406160 I haven't paid much attention to the length or girth of his knives
Fucking easy for us to discuss this shit go move to china and try to discuss this shit without getting arrested and maybe you will start to appreciate everything you currently hate
sure there are MANY MANY faults that many many western nations have but we have it a LOT better than most have
so WHY ARE WE MAKING IT WORSE FOR OURSELVES JUST BECAUSE OTHERS HAVE IT WORSE?
and that is my say fucking say how I am racist and wrong
Kirara 🚗
i think "better" is a relative term the west certainly has it better than those old tribal societies if you're looking at it from the western perspective
Maria
did someone claim you were racist
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406169' 'so more access to modern medicine and more wealth to everyone in the society is bad?
Kirara 🚗
>>406171 those may be western values that westerners appreciate
>>406176 well they are sick because they were given said values and then the STRENGHT to hold said values was pulled away and said "societies" were left alone to stand despite having no building blocks to hold any kind of society uphold
for some reason every single colonial force in the history of the world has been incredibly half assed every single colonial force that wasn't forcibly expelled basically destroyed the country for hundreds of years
>>406180 china colonizes the colonizers it's kind of an exception like reverse colonization
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406181 fuck your shit >>406182 so china is exception for thousands and thousands of years despite being like 2nd place so called "civilization" was invented at and has ever expanded its influence since and absorbed killed and destroyed and again absorbed civilizations around it
You know just like say romans conquered shit all aroudn them
SO DID THE CHINANS or indians around indus river they killed and enslaved the tribes around them
and the final resolution is China is 100% conquest and colonization
sk
I'm sorry which part of a privately owned class society is classless, moneyless and stateless to you?
Hmm Well This is probably what I should have expected to happen.
Kirara 🚗
>>406183 conquest and colonization are a little different but yeah china is basically all from conquest and colonization
sk
Like I dunno man 2 communists tell you something isn't communism, and you as someone who hasn't even cracked open a book on communism tells us NO IT IS BECAUSE THERES A RED FLAG like what do you hope to accomplish with this?
China is a capitalist country with people claiming to be communists at the head
>>406189 You are saying that colonisation is 100% evil and wrong and so on despite them bringing those areas to be accessavble tot he fruits of the best of humanity and before colonization /// during colonization they were solid and stable societies but yet when colonization they turned well conflicty
FormerRei@mobile
>>406187 It's really funny how therr are all these non communist countries claiming to be communist. Really makes you think.
sk
Yeah it's almost as though words have meaning or something
Though I guess the nazis were socialists and North Korea is a thriving democracy
Maria
China is not a communist country It's a country that tried being communist and it didn't happen but they kept the same party in power along with state control China's got a weird thing going on with a combination of centralisation and decntralisation
and like Samurai has said before "I don't want your Communism, your anarchism, your conservatism, your antything and LEAST OF ALL I WANT TNISM SO SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH YOUR POLITICAL NONSENSE"
>>406200 There are certainly bad values. I don't think anything that harms other people is good. But if you go into a country with FGM and replace it with more violence, it's pointless.
My opinion is that we should judge values as good or bad on how they harm or do not harm people. Rather than claiming something is good because it's western.
>>406203 Also "fun" fact about fgm. In some of the locales that feature it as part of their culture, western human rights activists have gone to these places and convinced people not to get it done. And then basically all of the people who didn't get it done were ostracized and most of them got it done anyways.
After we seize the means and all though, I dunno, people live their lives and don't die I guess? So what if someone disagrees? Though I dunno why they would disagree with being free to do what they want. >>406219 No We're not ancaps, we don't consider people property
>>406227 The people who want to do that >>406229 Again, the people who want to do that >>406231 If everyone wants to starve, then everyone starves, can't be helped
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and who supplies the water? or fertilisation?
Kirara 🚗
lmao just look at the sky water falls down
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406228 and if they don't want to do that or if tjhe people producing food don't want to feed the other people?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
so if the people who produce the food don't want to share the food tough luck everyone else starves
>>406238 but they have the food they have the guns they have people with guns
sk
Everyone should ideally be armed Besides it's not like its their land to begin with There isn't a small group of "people who make the food" set in stone
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
yes but those are the people with FOOD
FormerRei@mobile
Now this I can get begind
FormerRei@mobile
*behind
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406241 so everyone at the moment who is producing food may lose their farms?
Kirara 🚗
it has to be fully automated everyone gets a clone pod to make meat
sk
>>406245 They lose exclusive access and control of it
FormerRei@mobile
Also apparently Infected Mushroom are Israeli.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
your dream is a pipedream
sk
My dream is literally just no cops
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
everyone with soemthing to lose will forever band together to oppose you even if it means fascism and well actually worse for them that you mean but you will never win
>>406251 Yeah we are well aware that fascism is gonna rise up in response
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and even when you are winning some parties who can gain from you winning will band together with some influential of your cause to reform the ruling elite and you are back at the starting line few ruling the masses
>>406269 Part of me wants to try and follow the other paths and see how that goes. But the other part of me wants to try and preempt the inevitable.
sk
Look if you haven't been a scout, you can't possibly understand why the military structure is the only way society can exist without starving to death on purpose
>>406270 no, but the fact that societies like the ones i'm advocating for did exist is enough to say they're possible despite plenty of societies in which they didn't go like i want
>>406274 Whenever I see someone say "the fact that" it reminds me of this >The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as “the greatest or most significant or most influential” rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>>406279 If I could do that so easily I wouldn't be torn
>>406281 i once took a rock n roll history class as an elective and the book had a chapter dedicated to the byrds and it was like "if the byrds just didn't have problems keeping a consistent band roster, they would have been bigger than the beatles ever were" and it always makes me laugh
>>406285 the same way tons of societies existed before rubber was created
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
if capitalism ruled in the countries that were starving they would have economies that could support the people one way or another sure there would still be some who would be dfucked up but it would be similiar to say any other "capitalist" society where the fucking poor and down ridden are 0,1% or elss of society
>>406291 9 mill is the starvation and starvation-related deaths There's obviously way more I'm not counting in like, people freezing to death, dying of exposure in general, war, that sorta thing cause that's not specifically starvation which we can actually just decide to fix overnight if we wanna
>>406299 i would like to but i can't people aren't allowed to exist outside of modern society it's illegal
sk
>>406299 Should people be allowed to not own a phone? Then you can't have a phone either
FormerRei@mobile
>>406301 Literally go be Amish or Mennonite Problem solved
Kirara 🚗
>>406303 they exist within modern society and are also not the kinds of societies i'm looking for having no tech doesn't mean you're not part of society
currently you also want those people to be SHOT for even wishing to have a phone.
FormerRei@mobile
>>406309 So then by definition you can't live outside of modern society. It's not even illegal to live outside of modern society then, ifs just not possible.
sk
>>406314 No, phones aren't private property Spencer should not be shot for having a phone
Now here comes ME TN I say that people should get what they work for that if you work hard, you should get more than what you normally get basically if you work 10 times as hard as Steve there you get 10x steve's wage >>406326 so if I work 10x your job I get 10x your stuff?
sk
>>406325 They already do, so You'd just be parroting Kropotkin, people would maybe clap
>>406333 but that isn't benefits unless societal status grants you privileges
Kirara 🚗
did you know that gas station attendants make more money than suicide hotline workers and lots of people with doctorates make less money than mechanics
So Like I said TN here comes along and says "everyone who works hard will get rewarded hard" and that will actually grant him a following maybe not that big at start but some following
now since there is no state or anything
how will you stop TN movement?
sk
>>406334 Neither position exists You don't get stuff for working There's no hierarchy distributing stuff based on some arbitrary metric
>>406342 okay TN movement then will seek to force its views unto society people who don't work will no longer get so much as people who work people who work harder will get more than people who work less >>406346 yes but TN force is organised they know what they are doing they can also be formed into "brown shirts" to enforce TN beliefs as in armed force but there is no armed force with leaders as there are no leaders
Kirara 🚗
can't get heart surgery when you need it now unless you're rich
sk
>>406344 You'll be met with force when you try to restrict people's freedom
The human beings who make up society take it upon themselves to do that which they want to do
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
society is born out of hierarchy
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
that is how human fuckign history is formed people start to farm they have extra food or can expand so they hire people to either farm for them or protect their crops and then they start to trade their food for other stuff and that then starts to form communities and cities and that is how humanity first formed itno fucking communes bigger than just "local tribe" etc
Kirara 🚗
>>406356 id never want to talk about my feelings again
FormerRei@mobile
>>406363 Well technically I didn't talk the whole time. But it was an interesting type of therapy.
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>A kaleidoscope of blood written in clocks holy fuck that's so metal
>>406369 So your shit just disproves of basic human nature to work
Kirara 🚗
>>406368 would you say you benefited from it at all?
sk
Yeah if human nature is to voluntarily subjugate oneself to a master for å fraction of what one could otherwise possess sure
FormerRei@mobile
>>406371 Yes but in a somewhat different manner. I benefitted more from just the structure of it, in terms of like "shit you need therapy for" stuff I was at the point of diminishing returns for improving how I act socially.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406372 in your perfect society what prevents me from well being TN and being a dick to everyone else?
>>406375 So at leisure I can form TN empire and form a state that will then forever compete with your non-society my organised thing vs non-organised thing which do you think will come on top?
sk
One of those isn't real so obviously you'll win You're fighting a phantom idea
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406377 FUCKING HELL IT IS AN IDEALISTIC SCENARIO NEITHER IS REAL AT THAT POINT
sk
No in your hypothetical, you're fighting a non-organized group, for no good reason, which doesn't even exist
FormerRei@mobile
>>406371 But I definitely think its a very beneficial type of therapy, I knew the people in the group pretty well and was able to really see people get over some of their issues.
>>406379 so in your world to make that world work no one like me can exist because people like me would fuck it up?
sk
You wouldn't be able to to begin with
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and to continue that up how would you prevent anyone like me from rising up? as well being TN isn't per se genetics but just right ideas
sk
There isn't any need to How is current society preventing monarchs from spontaneously forming, voluntary army and all? It isn't. It's completely unnecessary
>>406393 umm so what prevents someone from doing that very same in your perfect society and since the perfect communist society has no one to control such things and with no one with monopoly of violence what prevents wll TN EMPIRE from taking over th world
sk
Nothing. Nothing prevents it now, nothing prevents it then
FormerRei@mobile
>>406393 Dude that's basically a cult And it happens all the goddamn time
I don't think nor care what communism is nor do I think that current system will give me anything I just know what you are advocating is for the worse ' I am at the worst position that finnish society can set you, however I know why I am here I know why I am at the post I am in and I know how to get better and so on And if I ever choose to get bettert society allows me to and if I ever choose to get rich and powerful society allows me to only thing that denies me is ME
sk
Clearly
sk
"I don't know what you're talking about but it's worse than being forced to work and scraping by"
Like whit the advent of you becoming 100% commie I lost my last explanation to be here " to help SK" well he helps himself now and doesn't need my help but I still post here fucking I don't know myself If I knemyuself I wouldn't ask these questions? if I knew what I wanted I would work towards whart I w2anted instead of bein a loser like I am
sk
I dunno dude read the bread book or something it's good and you'd have like a basic understanding of what's being talked about at least
I have no fucking Idea what I want to do in society but in your socviety all I would do is LEECH 100% leech and then complain and rally people around me because your society would provide me such resources without me doing a shit
but this society only provides me resources to live not to fucking organise a fucking fascist takover
>>406432 So no one is ever rewarded for being excellent? so why would anyone ever be excellent?
sk
People find a lot of fulfillment in mastery
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
there is no excellent to be precise since excellent means that someone is BETTER THAN OTHERS but as no one can be better than others no one can ever exceed
>>406435 yes indeed through hsitory that has happened also what has happened through history? OH people have been rewarded for shit through history no matter HOW BAD AND OPPRESSIVE SAID SOCIETY WAS
sk
>>406437 No jobs are bad People shouldn't be forced into doing one thing for their whole life from 7 to 15
FormerRei@mobile
>>406439 That is absolutely not how the real world necessarily works and the sheer ignorance you've demonstrated by >7 to 15 What are you even talking about now?
sk
>>406438 Those rewarded the most are those who contribute the least
it's ironic though it's supposed to make it look bad
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and by nature supports a fuckign meritocracy and before she was killed as a he she supported the idea that whoever was capable should get what they strive for beasically YOU GET WHAT YOU WORK FOR >>406458 excpet that the story doesn't even support any communism
>>406461 Hey I can kinda feel even more sympathy towards you right now because you have dealt with me in the past and I am like less stubborn than this shit
>>406473 I know your strat is winning one cause I use it in other stuff but when challenged I blast at things
sk
It's hard not to be stubborn when someone is arguing against you by just assuming you're an ML or something, or that humans just want to die And pretend you're the stubborn one for not thinking people want to die
If you want me to so much believe in your perfect world sure but just first explain how your perfect world will divide its resources evenly with no bureaucracy and administration to make sure that everything is divided evenly
Maria
>>406475 Did you ever read the Mein Kampf manga? It's not that bad
>>406484 It's not an illustrated meinkampf it's more like a manga about Hitlers early life and how he became the prick he is
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406481 FUCKING DO THIS and I will stop forever as long as I live saying anything that opposes you JUST FUCKING EXPLAIN ME THIS SIMPLE FUCKING THING
>>406505 people started killing people for having to work for them when our civil war broke out and when they especiallt WHEN they started losing the reds started to kill their captive land owners because they could and they had "opressed" them sure they might have treated them wrong, no one can dispute tham BUT TO KILL THEM DEATH FOR THAT
FormerRei@mobile
>>406509 Not a perfect replacement but should be good enough interim
I can speak for all deaths in the world to be fault of capitalism and I can speak for all shit to be fault of capitalism but when soemthing that is in the name of communism I can't say that said thing is in the name of communism
I would never do a fucking thing if I was given basic shit to live over and I would never guarantee to watchover myself to keep myself in line, if there was no price to do so
sk
>>406548 Clearly you would since you see that as hell on earth and would rather be forced to work
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406549 so I would be forced to do stuff if I wasn't making sure I wasn't doing stuff?
>>406563 Just keep on clickin I think something might happen if you exit the game Actually specifically what's going on I'm not entirely sure what bit you're up to
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
and some people organise
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
now those people have a big difference betwen those who aren't organised vs those who aren't?
>>406573 Oh I see now Well, she certainly won't just let you go
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406572 TYes indeed who empties my house's trash bin
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
I am going to start from that privileged point of view who once a week drives the trash cart to my house and gathers the trash the smelly as fug trash and ferries it to the trash plot where it is by other trash working people selected as what is bio stuff, what is recyclable and what is BIOHAZARDIOUS and then emptied off to the actual trashwasteplot
>>406577 You can't just say those employed to do it because technically everyone could refuse You need to guarantee it beyond any possibility of people not wanting to or your system can't work
>>406579 >You need to guarantee it beyond any possibility of people not wanting to or your system can't work so how do you accomplish this? HOW DO YOU GUARANTEE anything with no state
sk
That's what you've been asking me all this time So I figured you likely had a system in Finland to do that
What are you gonna enslave people if nobody wants to do it?
wow that was easier than I thought she didn't stop me or anything
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406583 no one does it willingly so the companies/state companies pay a fucking big wage for doing it because no one wants to do it they get specially treated for doing it
sk
But people could refuse TN what if absolutely everyone decided not to take that job no matter what
>>406598 TN empire is never going to happen and a fuck ton of safety measures exist to prevent that
FormerRei@mobile
>>406596 Oh man I love pathological counter examples
sk
The only safety measures needed are the lack of reasons to do it
It's not illegal to starve yet few people do
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
No matter how much me wishes to form the FOURTH REICH basically even the fucking dictatorial legislation of EUROPEAN UNION would prevent me from ever doing it even EU prevents people form becoming dictators
>>406637 SO THOSE FREE PEOPLE ARE FREE TO PROP UP THEIR FREE STATE AND SAY REBGIN A UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR EXAMPLE?
sk
>>406639 Am I free today to just break the laws? Why is your freedom to have a state more important than mine not to?
This is idiocy. No matter which side you take, you are denying the other. There is no compromise possible between having a state and not having a state
Kirara 🚗
i think it's fine for people to have a state as long as people aren't obligated to be part of it and can leave if they want to
>>406643 see this is sensible but how do you do your non organised state when it has to compete against organised tates even if said organised states are 100% "good and beneficial" said non-organised things will lose out
because organised vs non-organised guess who wins
and then there is the bigger issue what prevents that fucking ORGANISED PARTY from fucking forcing its way to your non organised place what prevents the fucking states from invading your non state?
FormerRei@mobile
*non organized non state
Maria
>>406646 My ability works on a conceptual level If
FormerRei@mobile
>>406642 The people who don't want a state a could go fuck off somewhere and find a place to have their "non-state"
sk
Can't be done
sk
The people who want a state can fuck off and have their state somewhere else Like on an island or something
FormerRei@mobile
What if you went to space?
Kirara 🚗
>>406647 yeah the problem with states is that they're like a fucking cancer and spread uncontrollably
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
A state>nonstate and that is a fact organisation>less organised
FormerRei@mobile
Well that explains why Israel is better than Palestine
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
And it is not a CANCER it is HUMANITY and why we are stronker than lions or monkeys or anything because we can organise
sk
The state is a parasite and your only real argument for it here is "but what if there was a state somewhere else and it attacked"
the point of anarchism is that nobody is in charge of others people aren't just forced to abide by the decisions of other people when there is hierarchy, it's entirely consensual and those who don't consent are free not to participate if they don't want to for example a tribal elder would be someone held in high esteem by everyone else and the people would consent to that person providing guidance and they'd provide guidance but they wouldn't necessarily lead
>>406658 my argument is to forfit some rights so that our basic rights ar guaranteed by a centralised power who holds monopoly on violence
sk
>>406659 No you weren't in the scouts so you can't know Only strict hierarchies can get anything done that's why everyone just died in medieval towns and stuff
>>406661 >I can't actually give anyarguments so I will just throw ad hominems
sk
That's your own fucking pseudo argument
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>406663 no I give arguments and you don't answer them and when I ask for you to state why you'd shit would work you say "it will work"
sk
Because "who will do x" is a fucking meaningless question like am I supposed to tell you which demographic will do the thing? >>406667 Quads will actually be ground for gulag Marx was very clear
FormerRei@mobile
Quads
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
See what will you do about people who seek to get quads?
>>406659 Yes indeed but what stops from one tribesman from forming a "i am righr because I have might" society and so on? lack of rules allows for tyranny less rules you have more space for tyranny when you have highly organised society you have less space for actual tyranny
FormerRei@mobile
>>406665 I'll get gulag all over your face and upper body.
"hey we're gonna oppress people because we have a few people together" Ancom, definitely: oh OK
No TN people who start shit get met with force you don't need laws for this
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
oh shit how do I turn it off I ｃａｎ't ＳＴＡＨＰ the fixer
Kirara 🚗
>>406669 it's not perfect but it's harder for people to amass might enough to take over an entire tribe without losing the tribe in a tribal culture like i explained many tribes worked like that for hundreds of years
>>406690 I was "born" when universe was crated Humanity exists to have created me
sk
>>406686 Huh, I thought it was both intentionally, and now it's mostly just a race thing Well, an economic thing too i guess
Maria
>>406692 >I was "born" when universe was created Are you implying we live in a predetermined universe
Kirara 🚗
>>406693 certainly economic one of the goals was to disrupt drugs from being sold and the money going to USSR-supported nations, technically but as for actually targeting the left in the US, that's a conspiracy theory passed around by leftists there's no evidence for it, it's just paranoia the left wasn't even considered a force in the US when the war on drugs began and people were terrified of communism still
we say anti-christ and so on but since it is ment to be there why would it be "anti" it is part of the plan so whatever horrible thing will arrive in the future to make the world ready it will be "natural for it" it will be "normal" for human society to do so
so the end times will be just another horrible society so why wouldn't the end times be "someone misusing christianity to gain power" I think that itself is perfect
Sometimes I wonder if my knowledge of these obscure games and things that other /moe/s don't have allows me to bring a different perspective to the table
>>406716 yes but the point is we are talking about thestuff that allowed it to exist so remove said things you remove a lot of things that allow intertnet to exist as a thing or universities to exist as they are
well the argument people use against that is generally that plenty of the things we had before capitalism existed we only had because of that system but we moved to a newer system to gain more, and communism is the next progression
Current situation the pathological altruism in europe is not good and the corrupt near olichargism in USA that is almost like their enemy russia is not good either however neither is so bad and far gone that they can't fix it normally peacefully
Anno
>>406725 everything is a system there's some connotation discrepency here
>>406731 if there is no system no one guarantees any livelihood for anyone and might makes right will eventually form up into a "new system" basically new feudalism and if communism is no systems anywhere to guarantee that no one is trampled ever what prevents someone from becoming that something that tramples someone? and so on and if you need to enforce that people are equal and make sure that they stay equal that requires systemising organising and so on meaning STATE of some sort that will mean that you will form into a form that oppresses SOME to enforce that everyone else is equal and everyone who is not equal well they get removed/forced to be equal
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
But that isn't here or there what is here is do you think MCfeast tastes good or not?
