>>132548 put that is just positive drink tthe kaff go nap for 15-30 mins and by thennthe chemistry is doing its magic in ypur brsin coffee nap, a brief fad here that started discussion on "should afternoon naps be allowed amd even allocated?"
>>132550 I used to get it as well, I think it's just because it's a warm drink. If you can take caffeine and go to sleep you get some pretty crazy dreams, because your brain is still overclocked and has nothing else to do.
and I'm back I got referred to the psychiatric division in Gjøvik And I've been put on sick leave out the week, supposed to call again if I'm not less down by Monday
Coca cola zero atleast here, is the original coca cola light recipe but then at some point they changed the artificial sweeteners, which finalyl ended up in them using some weird thing in light that I really liked, but most people didn't so they brought it back as Zero and kept the new Light cola as light cola however, they eventually changed light cola again and now it is just crap
Oh god I had long been thinking "why do many people in older movies all sound the same, especially male actors" dnno how much it is present in english black and white movies, but atleast in finnish ones iti s and now it hit me poor audio recording. You had to speak as clear and loud so the mics could pick it up so it made sense that people sounded the same.
I wonder if there is anyone who is into them on moo I don't know anyone in RL or on other circles kinda wanna talk about the story in their "newest" album
>new study dismantles myths about healthy obesity The fact that such a study can even exist is an indictment of our entire species The fact there are enough people who think you can be obese AND just as healthy as the guy who takes some minimum amount of care of his body is proof we aren't ready for space travel
You should have to sign something >you're free to eat as much as you like, but when you get sent to hospital you're gonna have to foot the bill yourself
The problem is I don't agree with that on principle The government shouldn't get to decide who does and doesn't get treatment, even based on the ailment
But it's the kind of thing where it's easy to get agitated and go "FUCK EM"
>>132623 Huh Well, I guess we'll see what this is about
I doubt it's a truck of peace though, those USUALLY happen during some sort of event Without the event, it's just... you know, killing and won't get as big coverage
>Rooger Ailes’ unexpected death will likely complicate several pending lawsuits and a federal investigation into whether 21st Century Fox violated any securities laws in its handling of payments to women to resolve sexual harassment claims. >>132628 Died today Nobody was aware he was dying
sk
Oh I see The twitter is jumping to car of peace assumptions already I still think it seems odd
You're gonna come back from the slumber of that christmas party with a random car mowing down a few people, ISIS? Really? Gotta do bigger than that if you want anyone to give a shit
One person apparently said it seemed intentional I'm still waiting until we know something a bit more concrete here, though People are actually nuts in the US, so you never know
Kirara☆
Yeah Could have been anything
Kirara☆
Suspect is captured Didn't try to shoot anyone apparently so
What amazes me is traffic was light enough for this to be possible in the middle of fucking NY What a great day it had to be for something this awful to even happen
>>132652 Wait really? I mean the image of a car impaled on top of those things doesn't seem like something that happens if you just lose control and try to stop
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
doesn't look like one to me either but NYPD has the dude and is saying he's drunk i guess
They burn down crops of weed at least I guess maybe they're fine with opium?
It's hard to say with these people since they're both militantly religious AND an organization like any other
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
Pulse nightclub shooter also drank a lot apparently
sk
There's a rule that lets you lie about following Islam if it is in the interest of saving your own life, at least Maybe it extends to partaking in stuff like alcohol, and maybe you can interpret it to be "in the interest of furthering Islam"
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
Steve Herman @W7VOA says suspect is 26 years old and has a history of DUI
I've actually seen people saying Trump didn't break the law at all when giving Russia classified info, cause he can decide their classification on a whim, so nothing wrong was done Like dudes and dudettes, Trump can move to a secure location and nuke the entire continental US, legally Like tomorrow
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
new york times and la times reports that times square accident driver may have been intoxicated - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after everyone already knew
In a day or so that is what i did both times first time in 2-3 weeks and last time in about a week though that was only because the stiches came undone already the doc hadn't tied them well enough
The story began in Imaginations on the otherside album with the titular 1st song then Bright Eyes and ends with And the Story ends and this album follows up from that years later.
I love those days in a weird way since I will be constantly "man I will hit the sack the moment i am home atleast for an hour ort wo" and then I don't do that and barely sleep
Kirara☆
I fell asleep on the floor this morning Before my nap
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
how in hell? how little have you slept
Kirara☆
I haven't been sleeping well since I got home from the trip Fish has been keeping me up and then she takes naps during the day while I'm at school
reminds me of the necromorphs in dead space 1 where they had missing frames which made them look subtly jerky in their movements
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
yup I was just thinking the same thing
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>132798 that is the thing why the necromorphs got under your skin they were ugly which is a big fault in many horror games like take resident evil (lol horror) their monsters as cool as they were in say 5 were too good looking too well animated
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
we superseed boys
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
>>132800 yeah smooth animation that we want to see in a person isn't scary we want to see it in people because it's easier to be comfortable with
why would anyone want a scary monster to be more comfortable to people
also do you have the full album on you I kinda wanna that
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
I can grab it and put it somewhere ie steam I do have it like downloaded clearly but yeah
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
also lol >segio victoriano I thought the guy sounded italian and thus threw italian rhapsody and he was... name sounds familiar, but i doubt it is his real name
...I feel like it's a lot less impressive considering that they've increased the amount of feet
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
what's impressive isn't that they're hitting it their perfect sync is impressive their teamwork the bond between friends shining brightly on the dance floor
>>132858 The catch-22 of our economy when you're a minority is that if you sell a part of your culture that white people aren't in on, you can make a lot of money. But then you'll never be able to afford it again.
Chances are white people are buying it from white people anyway. That's the tragedy. They go to the Bronx, they get a chopped cheese, they call it an amazing steal on The Gothamist.
Then the price goes from $4 to $8.
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>>132859 do you want to surprise me as to what it does
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
>>132863 it hurts people darkness endless despair fear no pain
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
oh it's the recharge spell?
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>you take an attack spell >PAN takes the ability to make his damage dice d10 instead of d8 Is everyone just going to do a billion more damage now should my monsters be worried >>132867 yeah I'm not complaining but you guys are going to output more damage now haha
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
to be fair all the new bard support spells suck lol
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
yeah we're a team of endless dps
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
Cag's spells give your team more deeps and she didn't even use them
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
and i occasionally give our team hp >>132869 that's because we are so unhinged that we come up with insane shit
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
I was intending to have the hounds of tindalos keep spawning but the fight went long enough tbh
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
but the Hagunemnon fight was supposed to be an intro to using the B.A.D.A.S.S. as well as an anime as hell ending to the first arc so
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
it was pretty anime
Kirara☆ !Sh0sAiDORU
the all-out-attack was the best
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
I only have one other planned use for the B.A.D.A.S.S. at the moment and that's the last one so hopefully there comes a time to use it before then. Because it kind of won't work anymore lol
I've been seeing that Chris Cornell passed away and I didn't pay it any mind But a lot of people have been talking about it so I finally looked up who he was and now I'm sad too. >>132936 Yeah, I saw.
Oh, I was at a restaurant today and the waitress had a pin on her clothes that was a picture of Haru from Free. I almost said something, but the little devil on my shoulder appeared and said "hide your power level" and then the little angel appeared and agreed with her.
>>132965 SPOON MAN WAS MY SHIT. THAT WAS ATV OFFROAD FURY IT WAS ONE OF THE BEST TRACKS IN IT. LANDING JUMPS ON TOP OF OTHER PEOPLE LIKE IT WAS SUPER MARIO. GETTING IN TRICK POINTS AGAINST MY BROTHER I CAN'T STAND THIS. WHY COULDN'T THEY JUST TAKE AILES BY HIMSELF
>>132976 Good idea. Free! is low-level weeaboo territory for normie girls. I made the mistake of acknowledging something like that like 3 or 4 years ago and it resulted in the person showing me her Gaia OC roleplay threads.
>>132977 It really bothers me how many people are celebrating Ailes' death.
>>132974 So you're not going to do anything about it?
>>132985 i don't see why not i don't think it savory to explain too much it's a little hoggish of the thread i just wanted to explain why i was still here and not on a bus
>>132983 It would have to depend on the situation; I can't really say anything since I don't know who you were talking with or what the actual words being said were. Context is important for tricking people like that. Involving the word free would probably be too blatant but tempting. Being able to work swimming into the conversation naturally would probably be my preferred direction but I might also try and go for some English words that start off sounding like character names but swerve before they finish.
>>132989 I simply don't have the desire to force respect of those I don't want to. Even in passing. I'm not popping the corks like leftist twitter is but I certainly haven't felt bothered.
>>132993 I was going to say that was a nice image but the disgusting filename ruined it for me.
>>132992 You don't have to respect Ailes. You just have to respect the sanctity of his family's mental health. How would you feel if someone close to you died and you were met by celebration and people saying the worst thing about that person's death was that they lived too long? I would be devastated. I think anyone that would put someone through that is extremely low. It's hard for me to see something like that and think that we're part of a civil society.
Anno
>>132994 But that's not really the purpose of the dialogue as I wanted it to be.
>>132993 Oh I see , I figured she was. Can't be helped then.
>>132996 it'll answer for you whether they're entry level or just throwing on things they find cute or what if they're dodgy in their response then they're probably hiding a bit more
>>132995 Well, that's just one of the things. A lot of those people have little interest in pretending that society is civil. It would be pretty bad if someone did that to a family member of mine but seeing how such things have happened to me already, like in the case of my grandfather, it's likely something that I'm not as phased on. To tell // actually, nah, that's not important. But concerning the actual things that have been done, have been perpetuated, and all the storms I've read, I can definitely see why these people don't give a damn.
I guess it's kinda amusing that our 'civil' society is currently where it is, in part because of his legacy.
I always find it funny how people are like "What if a sexual predator gets a hold of this" Like, what exactly do they think sexual predators are?
Sexual predators aren't these weird human beings who don't gather information on their own, and instead sit like taut bowstring in their home, waiting for someone to fucking release it by giving them deets "What if a pedophile sees this picture of your child?" Yeah what if, dude Do you think pedophiles from across the country or even the area will go "Oh thank GOD, I didn't know there were children left around here, and now I have this one's address and name!" That dude could have popped by the local school on literally any weekday and he'd be able to just pick one child at random to get all that information on his own
Do they not understand how completely irrelevant the information being shared is?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>133011 well it doesn't matter poorly worded or not that shouldn't be accessible information secret ballots my ass
>>133013 You're right. I don't know why it's accessible either. It just somehow happens to be for the right groups. I don't know if it's how they voted though. I think it might just be whether or not they did.
That's not even about confidentiality, it's more like It's not information there's a reason for the public to have access to, at all
sk
This isn't a fully thought out idea, so I might go back on it in like 2 minutes, but I'm not sure any of your interactions with the government as a private citizen should be publicly available
I'm not sure it should be I think even whether you vote or not should be at least pseudonymous >>133020 It's none of the public's business whether any one specific person voted, just like it's none of their business WHAT they voted The government can't really avoid knowing whether you voted because they need to confirm you're a citizen when you vote, but as long as that's not made public it's fine
Either way, where a person shops isn't protected by one's right to privacy either. If a company discloses my having shopped with them that's not something I can do anything about.
I don't even think it's particularly easy. It's just doable. Much like how people don't just google up for people's shopping habits and history. You just buy it from people who are selling it. That said, usually when such a thing happens, the information is anonymized. Well, let me not say 'usually', but that's a case in some things.
sk
There's nothing legally enforcing it be anonymized, is there?
Not as far as I know. I don't know if banks or all the other people who trade information are forced to or not. If it is, it's likely industry specific.
It's public record! Who you voted for is a secret but that you voted is not protected information.
You guys are approaching this from the wrong end, though. Your logic is that you think it should be protected because it feels bad. But what you should be asking is why your right to privacy should extend to whether you voted or not.
>Who you voted for is a secret but that you voted is not protected information. Yeah, that's what I figured.
sk
No, I think it should be protected for the same reasons who you voted for is Because it's none of the public's business, can be used to, and will eb \\\ be used to undermine democracy
But "it's none of the public's business" is another one of those feeling statements. What you should be asking is why would one's right to privacy extend to that? Do you have a reasonable expectation privacy when it comes to whether you voted or not? Doesn't the fact that people can see you at the polling place on voting day undermine that expectation of privacy?
>>133030 Your voting decisions should not be public information, and that's really all there is to it You don't see it the same way, but I do
Not a lot to really go at from there, we're approaching the whole thing from different viewpoints
>>133035 Literally all of politics is a matter of opinion That's all politics is
月
>>133030 I feel like not voting is a valid political stance as well i mean there's a difference between not caring enough to vote and feeling unwilling to contribute a vote for specific political reasoning
>>133033 It's not a matter of opinion. You want to be a lawyer, you should strive to understand the underlying legal framework. You need to understand how the expectation of privacy plays into this. All private information is based on a reasonable expectation of privacy. Where is the reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to whether you voted or not.
>>133034 I think that may be true, but what's important is the reasonable expectation of privacy. It's also worth noting that the people who created our government would find the idea of not voting for any reason preposterous.
Yeah, imagine not voting. Imagine not voting for reasons. But honestly, you can discriminate against people in lots of ways. Some of them are banned. The ones that aren't are fair game and I don't think whether you voted or not is high on the list of things you want to discriminate against (although, it probably raised a few ranks). So it's not a forefront issue. Which is why I call it a stretch.
>>133035 maybe there should be a null vote option so that you still go and cast your vote that way you voted, but you're not disloyal to your own political standard
>>133038 You can always just write in a vote for butts.
月
it'd be nice to have the option of not // null vote to be taken seriously i think but yeah i think that's why a lot of people are doing that in the first place
>>133037 Discriminate how? It's illegal to not hire/fire someone based on their voting habits. It's illegal to meaningfully discriminate against people in most ways based on their voting habits.
i'm not sure how much anyone cares but i'm going to try taking clonidine for simultaneous treatment of adhd and ptsd/anxiety rather than the counterbalance mixture of stims and benzos i've done previously
it sounds promising and i look forwarrd // forward to it
>>133041 Political affiliation isn't a nationally protected class but I think it is in most states. Swimming deeper though, how you vote is arguably different from whether you vote or not.
i wouldn't be surprised if it lost. Voting IS (seen as) a civic duty, after all (even if it's not). Aside from legality, the openness of it is what's really at issue. Whether you want people to find out if you did or did not vote publicly is largely an issue of the political climate you live in. It's like asking about jail time at an interview. Although, that is an interesting case as that information IS public, but to curb discrimination, I think either a state or the country disallowed asking about it. I think it was a state.
>>133049 I'm not saying it exists right now. I'm saying that it's possible. And in a political climate like this where people are essentially DOXXING YOUR VOTING RECORDS, it can become a thing. That's how it starts. Voting records becoming a concealed detail or turning into a protected class would result from a situation like this taken and turned out of control.
月
if you're in a labor union you get spammed with physical mail all the time about political stuff and very strongly-worded discouragement from voting for certain things
Fear about doxxing is kind of an internet thing, too. Kids these days think that you have an absolute right to privacy and no one should know anything about you no matter what it is. It doesn't work like that! Where you live isn't protected by your right to privacy.
doxxing affects your personal life as people start to bombard you and your loved ones with their foolishness. >>133055
Yes, because sueing and shooting thousands of people you find on the internet, or rather thousands of people who found you on the internet, is easily achieved. Kurt Eichenwald got lucky with catching the person who sent him that strobe light gif with the intent to cause an epileptic attack.
If someone harasses you, you sue them, shoot them, or both. Depending on what state you live in. There are tons and tons of ways to find out where someone lives.
Maria
>>133041 Wouldn't they just not hire them and claim it was on the basis of something other than their voting habits
>>133054 Usually you only have to shoot a few of them before they get the idea.
I mean I understand where you are coming from. But we have to approach this from a right to privacy standpoint. The problem isn't that the information is out there, it's not protected by a right to privacy. The problem is the harassers.
it's not protected by a right to privacy because you don't see a reason to protect it. Let harassers give you a reason and you will see the laws change. >>133061 The laws are based on opinions of the populace. "You" was more like a general thing. Not simply you, but people at large. There hasn't really been a reason for us to protect whether or not someone voted because no one gave a large enough fuck to go and publicly shame people and cause the populace to do the same. >>133061 Common sense and fairness are also dictated by opinion. They are STEEPED in opinion. Killing people wouldn't be a problem if no one thought that dying was a bad thing.
>>133060 It's not about my opinion. It's about the law.
There's no reasonable expectation to that privacy. People can see you out in public voting. Why would that information be protected when people can just observe it?
>>133060 Laws aren't just about opinion. They're about common sense and fairness. There would be widespread ramifications in society as a whole if your address was protected information. How do you even enforce that?
月
also plate identification already knows you drove to those places and voted they don't know if you didn't and you just mailed in a ballot though, and i'm not sure how they track that but anything placing you at the voting places is pretty much information you volunteered to the public by going there
Maria
>>133061 Can't you choose to vote by mail The fact that people can see you in public voting shouldn't matter
>>133060 Law has to make senese, and not have horrible ramifications. You don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy when it comes to things that take place in public.
>>133070 >>133063 Mail-in ballots are a thing, yes. Voting records and other types of information are considered public record though, and you need a compelling reason for these things to be private. Records regarding your car, court proceedings, and many other things that people would like to keep private are also public information because these things are considered important for keeping society running properly.
>>133061 You can also mail-in ballots. You can do a lot of things. But really, in the case of this kind of discrimination, it's not so much about whether someone voted, but whether they didn't. Sure people can see you at the voting ballot. I can go stand online. Get a sticker. Whatever. Doesn't mean you voted. >>133069 >A compelling reason. Discrimination is pretty compelling. It hasn't happened yet in any degree that I can notice. But if it ever blows up, then there's reason to conceal. That's what I said from the beginning. It's a STRETCH Because it's possible to do but requires effort.
>>133074 Oh, I know. I didn't even try to say that it's happening already. This is just STEP ONE IN OPENING UP THE PATH OF DISCRIMINATION: 1) Reveal people's info
>>133075 I don't think it can be a compelling reason if it has never happened, though. I think if it does start happening, the solution is to make it a protected kinda thing. There are legitimate reasons as to why public record is important.
月
>>133075 that doesn't seem like a stable path i think anyone who tries treading down that path is going to find themselves heavily ostracized
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
oh wait we don't have internet voting since it flopped so hard
>>133076 Oh, I agree with you. Somewhat, I guess. In terms of keeping it private anyway, I agree. But this has been what I'm saying. All these laws are based on our opinions of how life is and what should be done. I understand why it's not protected yet but I feel like that might change.
>>133079 I disagree. Law is based on framework that has to make sense, has to be rooted in the constitution, and has to not have far-reaching implications. Right to privacy stuff is based on a framework built of case law and goes all the way back to the bill of rights. You must have a reasonable expectation of privacy for information to be protected.
Frameworks are based on opinions. The US Constitution was based on opinions. All of these things reflect either how we think now or how we thought in the past.
The judiciary interprets the law but the legislative writes it. I don't know what it would take to turn a specific thing into a protected class other than writing it together. The judges can go ahead and determine whether that's constitutional or not, as is their right and their function, but it starts somewhere. Either from legislators writing it, or from someone suing based on discrimination and having it taken to the courts themselves. No matter how you look at it, the laws, the frameworks, all that stuff is based on opinion. When that opinion changes, new laws are made. And when new laws are made, you can go to line 3
Changing well-settled constitutional principles like that is judicial activism and literally doing it wrong. Those people should be dragged into the streets and tarred and feathered, that's what the founders would have done.
speaking of courts this legal training thing is getting really dumb they're using two separate people's work as examples for training, and they're following completely different rule sets and there's no consistency they answer questions that people send in, but every answer is pretty much "look at the training booklet" when it wasn't addressed in the training booklet, or it IS addressed in the training booklet but is saying the exact opposite of what you're telling us to do and i'm asking for clarification on why you're doing it a different way than the booklet it's been like three months now i'm not getting paid worth my time while they continue training these other hooligans i'm getting really upset
>>133087 Rewriting constitutional law because of feelings is a greater evil than anything you could seek to stop, though. THings must be done properly.
>>133093 That's a dangerous opinion. The rule of law and the consistency of law is important. People must abide by the rules and the proper way of doing things even if they don't like it.
Justifying everything as a matter of opinion is how people end up killing each other in the streets.
That wasn't an opinion... It's an unfortunate truth. Rule of law is important. Consistency is important. But those who can not trust either are more likely to disrespect both.
It's like when Kirara and I were talking about people celebrating the death of Ailes. I used to think that kind of thing was messed up. Now? I don't even flinch about it. It was once a matter of principle but that's gone from my mind. I don't uphold that as "the proper thing to do". The systems that we have are only as strong as we make them and deem to uphold them. Whether it's "social acceptability" or "legality".
>>133099 It should, though. Manners of privacy are constitutional law, too. No area is more sacred and more important to protect. Rewriting one of the bedrocks of constitutional law on a whim would be a bad thing.
>>133098 It's going okay. I'm just killing the bosses in this new event.
>>133102 Yeah but that's the thing. All these things are generally protected via process. And the strength of that protection is the discord of opinions. If we, of one mind, struck down an amendment, or perhaps added one whatever, and everybody agreed, the process would be easy.
The bill of rights is not just amendments, though. It's regarded as something that should not be touched. I don't think you'll ever see a situation where everyone decides they just don't need freedom of speech.
Saying that everything is just opinions, I think is seriously devaluing the framework that the founders have handed down to us. Everything goes back to the Constitution in one way or another.
Over-valuing opinions is an evil the founders warned us of. They called it the tyranny of the majority. Fairness and justice are more important than how people feel.
>>133106 It's not a specific set of opinions that I'm referring to. I'm saying that all of our laws have been made based on whatever opinions the founders had. Not even just those, but basically any other law that I can think of. I don't see how any law can come from something that isn't an opinion. Excluding the "Laws of Physics", I guess. That's a framework for explaining how the world works. But the "Laws of a Country" are based on the collective opinion of a society at different points in time. They are added, deleted, amended, and otherwise changed to suit the times. >>133107 Fairness and justice is based on how people feel. They make laws based on how they feel. The law is carried out and enforced.
月
sorry if i'm derailing, if so just ignore i don't really think you can call those opinions opinions are things of an individual it's not really like that there were opinions of these things at the time where it's like "oh i like free speech" or "oh, i don't" it's more the emergence at the time of something which wasn't previously accessible as a society and it's the momentum from which we've built our society since then
>>133109 They were definitely opinions. Opinions with lots of nuance. They are the beliefs of the individual but these individuals came together to create a system of fairer society. BASED on those beliefs that they held. They argued about things Then they got together in a room, tried to make all that stuff concise and make sense, and then they spit stuff out.
>>133109 Moreover, our government is built on the idea that people have inalienable rights and that it's the government has a duty to recognize those rights. It's not just based on opinions!
月
>>133114 you say opinions, i say data points of the different elements of the social structure you say argued or deliberated, i say performed data analysis you say passed a law, i saw observed a trend
it's just the feedback input/output lag that makes it seem complicated when it's on a society scale
ToN
>>133100 arent you in a crew? How are they doing in this guild wars
>>133117 I joined the first crew that invited me. So as you might guess, they suck. We've already flunked out of preliminaries or whatever, but it seems like we can still do the bosses so it's whatever. I just want 150 tickets so I can get a draw ticket.
>>133115 That it is an opinion! It's not a bad opinion but it's an opinion! >>133116 You can look at the same data as I do and come to a different opinion about what should be done about it.
>>133119 The founders would argue that it's not an opinion, it's truth.
But to understand that line of thinking, you have to understand that at the time it was understood that all authority to rule people comes from God. Monarchies tended to follow the idea that a king's authority came from God, but the founders mixed it up a bit and said that the bundle of inalienable rights comes from God and it's government's place to recognize them.
I think it's perfectly rational that a person may have a bundle of inalienable rights, and those rights are truths rather than opinions.
月
>>133119 yeah you and i can because we're individuals a social structure is its own thing with its own momentum and flow. it's going to do the only thing it can do freedom of speech was an opening it wasn't like selecting options when ordering your car, "Hmm should we have free speech or not" free speech was revolutionary and it was its own force it's more the recognition that free speech is fundamental to how the country functions because it's such a meaningful thing
although it doesn't make sense causally, i try to think of things like that more as bookkeeping and a time line, like "Here are the things that have become foundations of our country", and not self-guided "here are decisions we're making about what our country should do"
yes, they're arguing and deliberating and coming to those conclusions, but they're really parsing truth out from the social momentum at play at the time they're not just bickering about taste or preference
>>133120 And I'd argue right back because words mean things! If I was in the room where someone wrote "We hold these truths to be self-evident", I'd tell them "Well, actually, that's an opinion", and then they'd tell me to shut up, because truth sounds much more definitive or something. Or maybe not because I'd more likely be a slave and I'm not trying to die.
>>133122 Truth can be self-evident. It's obvious that the sky is blue, it's not an opinion. The same can be said about a person's right. You were given the ability to say whatever you want. Any ruler that kills you for it is a dickhead. That's self-evident, isn't it? You can think about it objectively and arrive only to that conclusion.
Note to self: cutting off the "All Men Are Created Equal" part in the sentence buried the joke. Good job, me. >>133121 I definitely understand the importance of the matter of what they were doing but none of these things are simply "facts". They're informed by facts, analysis, and lived experiences, yes, but from those things, they've developed preferences. They've learned how people act when they have unbridled power, when religion dictates law and wields its own power. They wanted to move away from those trappings and decided to build a new system.
月
yeah but that wasn't just like an option before then that new foundation emerged from what came before there had to be some escalation of order and progress before things like free speech would be stable enough to be valued like what would it even mean to have free speech in eras where you lack the foundation to use it for anything
it's kind of like with the golden age of athens, how they stopped warring and in a brief 60 years uncovered more math and science and literature than in the previous X centuries it's not because they just decided to stop fighting and do other things instead it's through all the warring and bloodshed that they earned those 60 years of peace and so much progress it wasn't an option or opinion that peace is better than war it was earning your way toward a new social status and building a foundation through that gateway
Those rights really are self-evident, though. All you have to do is think about it for a moment. Anyone keeping you from doing the things that our constitution protects is being a dickhead and overthrowing them in a violent revolution is a perfectly reasonable course of action. Our founders understood freedom in a way that no one who came before them did.
And yet we still had slavery. They understood things in a new way, yes, of course, great. I don't think this really changes that they were opinions. >>133128 That's a testament to public opinion. Not simply the system. The system overcame another part of itself. Yeah, it happened, but it existed in the first place. These systems aren't simply facts and truths bundled together. There are opinions bundled in it. Had those opinions on slavery been interjected in the beginning, we wouldn't have had it, maybe. But these things aren't truths.
>>133127 I don't really understand why people use slavery to point out that our system might be bad. The fact that our system was able to overcome the injustice of slavery is a testament to its strength, not it's weakness. its not it's
>>133127 It was our system that provided a framework for the system to be fixed. That's a bad sentence. It was our system that provided a framework for the injustice to be fixed.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
wow you are still going
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>133127 also the "we still had slavery" is a bit moot thing to say it isn't that "you began slavery" you had slavery before your system was implemented and back then simply said, the european man in general didn't consider the "negro-race" equal human beings to them. add to that, it was africans selling africans they didn't really see anything odd about it.
>>133127 Laying the evils of slavery at the feet of our government is completely misled. Yes, Americans took place in slavery but the issue of slavery spanned the entire globe. Americans didn't exactly invent the practice either, it's something that originated in Africa.
Basically colonists stumbled upon it and went "wow, this is awesome" and didn't figure out until a century or two later that it wasn't actually awesome.
Our system eventually corrected the error and recognized the inalienable rights of everyone, though.
>>133131 >the european man in general didn't consider the "negro-race" equal human beings to them Welcome to the conversation. My point is that Opinions guide the constructionc and creation of law. This satisfies my belief. >>133132 I'm not saying they invented it. I'm saying that they took it on despite all their talk of freedom. Or rather, since we're going more for a chronological look, they were either willing to look past it or too shortsighted to see how it conflicted with what they were saying. TN's nice interjection up there is perfect because it goes as far to add to how these systems function. If a different race isn't considered equal, then those inalienable rights don't extend to them. Words mean things. Law is up to the interpretation of the people who take care of it.
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
Also the whole african slave trade was a loophole europe had already banned slavery, but due to them being non-crhistians and sold by non-christians it just slipped past and the slaves being shipped to the colonies, the moral authorities of europe didn't either give a fuck or even know about it
Another Anonymous
This is taking way longer than expected
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>133134 Well yeah If the situation wasthat an african colony of mostly blacks who had white slaves revolted against their colonial master they'd keep the white slaves as slaves and still possibly under similiar circumstances end up with similiar "all men are equal" as USA constitution
>>133134 In the end the system and the rule of law prevailed, though. Freedom won out in the end.
月
>>133134 the social climate guides opinions truths being self-evident doesn't mean that "this is obvious if you think about it" it's a historic recognition of a truth surfacing from the encryption of social function and exposing itself as a force of the society your opinions -> law transition is cutting off like half of the thing is a snake's head pulling its body forward or is its tail pushing it forward
Say a new nation suddenly spawns and peta has just recently forced its opinion on europe that all animals are equal to humans but this nation is far away from europe that they can't force those rules there well enough and enough people, especially in powerful postions have pets and like to eat meat despite agreeing with the moral value of peta's stuff, they still don't make a clause in their forming constitution about total animal freedom.
well tired brain kinda went off rails there and some can go >wow you compare enslaved blacks to animals the point here is the opinion and especially who are the ones making the laws I dunno if many of the people writing the constitution had slaves, but I can bet they knew many richer dudes with slaves who weren't maybe going to go with the whole "revolt" idea if that made them POORER
>>133138 Only after people decided to separate from the country. Only after a war. "Freedom" for black people came about because the opinion of the people was that rights extended to them as well AND because they won the fight. Not merely "the system working as intended". >>133142 I know. But that's aside from the point.
>>133141 You do know that not every blackman was a slave in the states even on its conception... slaves were slaves, just happened that about every slave was black due to aforementioned "christians can't be slaves" that has been in place in europe for 1000 or so years already
Slavery still exists in many parts of the world and has been a practice in those places since antiquity. The fact that the western world was able to break free of the practice in less than two centuries is a testament to the strength of enlightenment ideals, and a strong indication that these ideals are an observation of the truth, rather than mere opinions.
>>133141 The Civil War was a lot more complex than just being about slavery. Slavery was a tertiary issue, but the Civil War was mostly about the economy. The federal system did fix the issue of slavery through a constitutional amendment, though. It's how the system was intended to work.
>>133141 So if black men were free and had the same rights as the whites that makes your "freedom for blacks" moot it was freedom for slaves the slaves just happened to be africans say asia was close than africa to US and they had had a slave market then all the slaves would've been asian
the whole slave trade to the colonies was formed around the few loop holes that pope and other christian moral authorities hadn't thought of and didn't care enough
and just happend to be that africans were in trade of capturing other africans to sell to the highest bidder as slaves and when the colonial powers realised "hey we can make a profit out of this" the logical process followed
But say in africa there lived a random race of pink people who were instead the target of enslavement by the traders then it would be pink slaves in usa
>>133144 It's not moot at all. It's optics. >>133143 That we broke away from slavery has nothing to do with whether it's truth or opinion but rather how much they were willing to stand by what they believed in. >>133146 That's only because people wanted it gone. Like... I don't know how to explain this better. I'm not even arguing that the system is "broken". Just that it was based on opinions. They lived a life, they saw injustices, they came together to figure out how to solve them, and we gained America. There are agreeable and disagreeable things. But that's how it came to be.
>>133145 Also the system did work as intended The USA gov banned slavery the southern states did what they have the right to do, and chose to secceed from the union and form their own country and USA chose the foreing policy action of "the fuck you will"
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
I mean, technically say Scotland votes to be independent the UK can go "the fuck you will" and invade however due to it being anno domini 2017 that isn't really acceptable
>>133145 That slavery is immoral is a truth, wouldn't you agree?
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
Forexample Finland left Russia by saying "hey we leaving, you cool with that" and they went "yes" but when say Estonia did the same a bit later when Russia was in a stronger position they went "HELL YOU WILL" and war happened
btw what happened to the children of slaves were they slaves from birth? and could a slave buy themself free? and could legally say a whiteman sell himself to slavery?
>>133148 Oh see but this is another layer. It is a truth. but morality is based on a standard. When it was still a part of this country and up for debate, it was disagreed on. People found it to be moral, just, and allowed by God. That was enough for most. Whether something is immoral or not can change with the times. You know, like opinions.
Anno
>>133150 Children of slaves would regularly be considered property of the owner of the parents. As such it wouldn't not be uncommon for child slaves to be sold off at young ages if the owner had no need for the slave. I don't remember specifics, but owners could offer slaves the chance to buy themselves free. But this was usually done in a way that there was no practical manner of the slave ever saving up the amount needed to buy their own freedome. Freedom, even. And even if they did, they would still be entering a culture that wouldn't regard them as anything more than a slave.
>>133152 Hah real picky on the "equality for all" indeed I mean you can't say europe was much better, but the continent hadn't seen slavery since the muslim were driven out. if you don't count serfs in russia htat is
Maria
Africans aren't people Unless they're albino
TN !PcAPtAiNJo
>>133151 ummm what part of "christianity banned slaves and it was only allowed due to a loop hole" I just for the love of it remember how it was or went
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
oh god this is still happening?
Blind was casually racist again
Anno
>>133156 She's a white girl; I'm pretty sure it's a natural facet of their biology.
>>133151 a lot of opinions around slavery changed due to things like economic pressure and geopolitical struggles with the mechanization of europe and the south just using low cost labor it was a logistical detriment to the united states because there was disunity and the north was being held back by the south, who would rather work with europe
so yeah, there were opinions and there was a change that corroborated with those opinions but ultimately the social function is what carves out those opinions in the first place
>>133156 i'd apologize but I don't really feel sorry. >>133159 I can agree with that.
I just feel like people treat the word opinion as something that is necessarily frivolous(?) Yes, frivolous. Opinions can be just as important as anything else. That slavery is immoral is a truth but that can change. Because morality is a standard of opinions.
>>133161 that is because of the social attitude, which too is just an opinion, but wording matters here, currently treats it blame the internet and "in my opinion"
>>133161 i mean, yeah, but at the same time you're saying how the laws are based on opinions in a way that suggests that they're prone to flaw or subjectivity and yeah opinions are important but that's because they're connected to so many things it's polling the elements of an entire society through the things that influence its functionality as long as opinions aren't able to be suppressed, then it's not subjective in its legislation, because the legislators are representative
and the inability to suppress those things is why we have that freedom of speech, and why these things are self-evident through that foundation of freedom of speech, we have a system that functions in this way as a means of mining truth from social function and so we're doing that i don't think you can discount the laws as being just based off of opinion when the opinions are indicative of social function as a whole
Flaws are a human trait and humans make things in their own image. Systems are no different. Laws are no different. Often it's because such things were overlooked initially. My point from the beginning was that a change in public opinion can lead to the creation of a new law. Or perhaps removal of one. Either or, it's the same. >>133168 An informed opinion comes from consuming information. Whether it's data, a lived experience, anecdotes from your community, opinions are created and liable to change. Our laws seek to both create justice and maintain society without //with a level of consistency. Justice is dealt by the law but the law is formed from opinion and those opinions are formed through the consumption of information gained by living life.
Well at the end of the day, upsetting privacy law entirely just because people from the internet are sending you pizza for not voting for Hillary is a bad idea!
月
how is sending someone pizza harassment i sent imats a pizza it was supposed to be a gift not a harass
>>133173 Maybe, but if systematic discrimination and oppression based on whether you voted or not became a thing, it would be something to take seriously.
Anno
Usually this also involves sending pizza in bulk. Like not just five or six but more like thirty or forty. Where are you going to put thirty pizza, even if you're not paying for them.
月
Where are you going to put your question mark, even if you're going to ask a question.
>>133178 Wait, they actually pay for the pizzas? If someone send me 40 pizzas I'd take half those suckers to work and stick the other half in the freezer.
>>133177 I think that's a road we have to cross when we get there. If we get there. I don't think people will ever discriminate over something like that.
Anno
Probably not. But I feel for a lot of people, I feel getting a massive bulk of pizzas is by itself a pain to deal with. One of those feels should probably be a think. Like that part of the event alone is annoying.
>>133180 I think they would. I don't think it'd be very opaque. But if it were possible, and easier to do, I can see people doing it. >>133183 Sure. Why not? I hope everyone enjoyed this wonderful game of semantics.
>>133184 Same. I have a love and hate relationship with language and words. >>133185 wide scale discrimination isn't so much a point but rather the effect. The kind of people who'd do it are probably really angry about voter turnout. I don't agree with it at all. I simply don't put it past someone to do. And if that information was easier to access (just because things are public doesn't mean it's simple), it becomes both more likely and easier to do.
>>133187 I had a very important question about granblue.
Why is it that when I use bait chunks, that are meat, a robot lion shows up?
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
>>133189 Are you worried about the robot part? Don't worry about it, I'm sure giant bee women and plant girls that urinate all over your party aren't attracted to meat either. And yet there they were.
Anno
>>133186 Everyone did not indeed enjoy it but some people did.
>>133188 I think it's just a hypothetical and not likely at all.
Trying to punish people who aren't voting but you think might vote for your side by discriminating them is an irrational behavior. It would only turn them against you.
I know the idea that people are irrational is a meme a lot of people try to push as a whole, but generally speaking large groups of people behave in a rational way.
voting data, be it who you votef or did you vote or not shouldm't be data that is accessable more over it shouldm't even be stored after it has been counted
>>133196 this becomees an issue of values like eu or eout
月
>>133188 are you familiar with the concept of protection in openness there's a person that i knew who was doing a lot of stuff people didn't like in the kind of environment where doing so is likely to get you doxxed and possibly bad things but that individual doxxed himself and laid everything on the table, and nobody could really operate with subterfuge at that point because everyone was watching that person
>>133201 I don't think I said we should do it yet. That was more sk's position. My confusion was initially on whether it said who you voted for or if it was just the fact that you voted and you clarified that it was the latter. >>133198 I am not familiar with the concept that much. It sounds like it's in the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" territory though.
Anno
>>133197 But all data can potentially become an issue of values. Why is this one any way particularly special?
>>133202 Because it is data derived from a public organization and therefore has a responsibility to the public of transparency.
月
>>133201 i got one that was SELECT ALL THE TREES just a few minutes ago and there was one that was like a shot of the amazon river from overhead which had a whole bunch of trees and it's like NO THATS A RIVER NOT TREES
TN
>>133204 yea but raw data is just numbers person in age group x sex m in region d voted that is data that is useful and dpesnt compromise anythinh if it leaks but data as jack namefavw never votes is data that can have consequences if it leaks and serves no purpose to keep
月
>>133203 oh no, not like that at all he had a lot to hide but there's just ways that sometimes things being available t // to know makes it resilient i don't mean like government spying and stuff, but a different kind of thing just that it kind of changes things
Talesof !NuKeSlvmWE
oh rika, did you pick a weapon for the token draw already?
I can see situations where finding out whether someone voted can be useful. Like in cases of fraud But like I said, that it is even considered dangerous data is completely due to political climate.
>>133210 dagger would've been your best bet, it's super useful if you can get 4 of them. Top tier weapon really.
Eventually you pick them based on a character you want basically, but the dagger is super useful as a weapon. Harp was good for some elements but dark now has Kirin's Harp so >>133212 when you get stronger and can empty these boxes with the amount of tokens you get, definitely shoot for the dagger.
>>133211 I haven't drawn anything well I've drawn a bunch of crap and not seen the sword anyway, so it's fine.
TN
>>133209 i think in most european cpuntries that kind of data ain't kept vote secrecy and all dat
月
>>133209 is it less dangerous if it was private data that got leaked because that can and will happen if it became valuable if it's public, it's not particularly valuable and there's open readiness on how to handle things like harassment based on it even if we don't know how to handle it, there's a readiness that "oh yeah, this could happen"
I don't think it's more less AGH, I CANT CHANGE SENTENCES AND LEAVE WORDS MIDWAY ANYMORE I don't think it's more or less dangerous because it is public or private, but the desire for people to leak it would probably increase if it were private. Oh, that's what you were getting at with the openness thing? Like with that uh... shit, what was it Streisand effect? Yeah that. Anyway, it's not so much whether it gets out or not, but what people feel like doing with it. >>133213 We gotta update our democracy, man. These patches take time.
>>133215 i'd say it's not dissimilar to the streissand effect, but that's more like one really arcane and fringe manifestation of a larger thing privacy is really important so i think it's also really important to lay some groundwork for what's // what privacies are actually able to be protected
That stuff being public record is really minor. People are much too paranoid about privacy these days. I guess it's all just a part of the breakdown of society.
i was gonna buy like $400 worth of etherium back in april but had some unexpected costs man my luck ain't havin it that woulda doubled by now i knew this wave was coming too because it's been a hot topic for japan for the last few months
Yeah, I can't remember why I didn't buy Ethereum when I wanted to. OH now I remember, because the only place I knew that sold it at that moment was Coinbase and I don't like keeping things on CB at all.
月
well you don't keep them there dummy you move them i don't know how to feel about etherium though most importantly what the fuck do you say one etherium? two etheriums? etheria? it's not a lexically pleasing monetary term
You know, I don't even think we have a universal method of bitcoin either. Plural for bitcoin is bitcoins but I sometimes just say bitcoin. I feel like I use both. Like the words used are different.
月
i think it depends on if you're talking about the currency itself or a specific amount like bitcoins in casual speak or 3.5 bitcoin as a unit amount
>I beat someone in defense aw shit yeah And I'm still snug in the middle of moving up the next rank. I wonder when it becomes purely p2w people
月
>>133237 is frobin any good i 4*'ed her i'm thinking about 5*'ing and putting gronnblade on that cute ass next to sanaki with cymbeline and rally attack
I don't really use FRobin. I HAVE used her for orbs during that Grand Hero battle event but beyond that, eh.. She's not bad though. >>133241 Essentially
月
but she's so adorable
月
the downside is making her good requires a shit ton of SP
月
or no sanaki's got harsh command that's right that's even better but have someone else with rally attack
>>133248 It's just relating certain things to enlightenment or intelligence. ie: using subs vs dubs
Arisu
>>133251 yeah I think I read something about how different grades of enlightenment had people considering their choice as the best. the issue is that every one ends up being more meta/silly/out of the box.
